19th Hussars (The Elephant Family).

[Bill]

New to the forum and I would appreciate your comments.

19th (Princess of Wales’ Own) Hussars
KK789 Single Scroll
Three Badges:-
1. Copy – Sharp detail and poor strike. Wt. 11.6 g
2. Good? – Replaced loop on back, dull patina, scroll definition smooth. Wt. 12.4 g
3. Don’t know? – in brass with three loops. Wt. 12.4 g. Ideas please.

19th (Alexandra, Princess of Wales's Own) Hussars
KK790 Double scroll
Two Badges:-
1. Copy – Sharp definition looks like all others on ebay Wt. 9.8 g
2. A real Indian elephant look. Note gaps where feet meet scroll. Wt. 17.8 g (heavy). Is it good?

19th (Queen Alexandra's Own Royal) Hussars
KK791
Two Badges:-
1. Copy – GAUNT with dot. Sharp definition. Wt. 4.6 g
2. Good? - No maker. Wt. 5.5 g

Also National Army Museum state that the 1898 badge was worn by Officers between 1908 and 1922. Is there photographic evidence for this?
(Refer to: www.nam.ac.uk online collections.

Many thanks

[Leonard D]

Copies of these badges abound. Something akin to navigating a minefield. This subject has been covered extensively on the Forum in the past. If you use the "search" facility you will find a wealth of information posted by the cavalry guru's. Hope this will be of some help to you.
L.R

[Bill]

Thanks Leonard.
I read the threads back to 2008 and I am sure three of the seven badges are fakes but I'm not sure about the other four.
I would like to know particularly about the double scroll with slider and the odd brass three lug single scroll.
Cheers,
Bill

[3748 Hussar]

Hi All

Back to old Nelly, We Can't find any photographic evidence of the Double scroll elephant being worn . Yes we have seen an HM silver Example.

I would appreciate views on this one

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/19th-Alexa...ht_2021wt_1146

Regards

3748 Hussar

[1stTankie]

Hi Tony

I had always understood the 19th Hussars FSH badge to be an elephant with NO scrolls whatsoever facing the opposite way to the Arm Badge, i.e. to the left as you look at it. This is modelled on the elephant that appears on the Officers' crossbelt.

Best wishes

Gordon

[Keith Blakeman]

Originally Posted by 3748 Hussar

Hi All

Back to old Nelly, We Can't find any photographic evidence of the Double scroll elephant being worn . Yes we have seen an HM silver Example.

I would appreciate views on this one

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/19th-Alexa...ht_2021wt_1146

Regards

3748 Hussar

Having being in contact with a 19th Hussars collector in the recent past, as interesting as these badges are and they are certainly better looking than the run of the mill re-strike, those with the raised rear leg off the ground are definently NOT genuine.

Andy (Magpie) has one of these, it'll be interesting to know where they originate from and how long ago they started appearing.

[1stTankie]

[QUOTE=Keith Blakeman;181701]Having being in contact with a 19th Hussars collector in the recent past,

Hi Keith

If your 19h collector is still contactable could you ask him for his opinion on the attached elephant and also if he has any pictures or details of the buttons worn by this regiment please?

Many thanks

Gordon

[Rockape]

This Heffelump looks a bit different from the single scroll variety I have seen. Looks as though it was won by the vendor at the same Canterbury auction as the double scroll puggaree badge was.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/19th-P-W-O...item51a13e4e9a

Gaz

[Keith Blakeman]

Originally Posted by Rockape

This Heffelump looks a bit different from the single scroll variety I have seen. Looks as though it was won by the vendor at the same Canterbury auction as the double scroll puggaree badge was.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/19th-P-W-O...item51a13e4e9a

Gaz

Gaz,

The lettering is certainly different and the front leg looks a bit skinny, also is it cast or just dirty? That auction lot sold for £3,300!

Gordon,

Will do, nice looking badge though and something I've never seen before.

[Bill]

4 years on, but I posted a photo of an identical double scroll badge on the C, Y, T/R forum recently. The slider is shorter.
Bill

[grenadierguardsman]

I think its a nice looking badge. That Endici is a respectable chap as well, ive brought loads off him. Not that anyones knocking him.

[Keith Blakeman]

Originally Posted by grenadierguardsman

I think its a nice looking badge. That Endici is a respectable chap as well, ive brought loads off him. Not that anyones knocking him.

Maybe he is and I've had excellent badges from him but not everything bought at auction is genuine, this badge is a notorious gap filler and has been for forty odd years. I have an article highlighting the early appearance of the double scroll 19th Hussars reproductions, not even re-strikes as the raised back foot is completely wrong.

[Tweed]

I was wondering if these 2 elephants I have in my collection are infact original or reproductions , the one on the left has 3 lugs and better detail than the one on the right with 2 lugs, both appear to be from the same die,

[High Wood]

The two lugged example is a good example of a proper badge whereas I have my doubts about the three lugged example, which has no space between the tail and the elephant.

[Tweed]

Thankyou , i was thinking the other way around im not sure if these are rare or have any value but the pictures dont quite show but apart from the tail they are from the same die , its amazing how a camera can make things look a different shape ,
What age are they from?