14th 20th King's Hussars Gold Hawk

[Alan O]

Try this one for the blue backing pictures.

http://www.1420h.org/mblythe.htm

Alan

[3748 Hussar]

Originally Posted by Alan Owen

Try this one for the blue backing pictures.

http://www.1420h.org/mblythe.htm

Alan

Hi Alan,

Not the quite same blue backing as my other post , I believe this is the one in your www.1420h.org/mblythe.htm. Link

Regards

3748 Hussar

[Alan O]

That is it. Can you provide dates for when the Regt wore these embroidered beret badges? Elsewhere in the albums are pictures of the black a/a on no 1 dress hats with no backings as well.

In the early 1950s pictures they are wearing dark blue berets with no backings to the brass badges.

Alan

[3748 Hussar]

Originally Posted by Alan Owen

That is it. Can you provide dates for when the Regt wore these embroidered beret badges? Elsewhere in the albums are pictures of the black a/a on no 1 dress hats with no backings as well.

In the early 1950s pictures they are wearing dark blue berets with no backings to the brass badges.

Alan

Alan,

They were certainly wearing these cloth badges from 1985 (when I joined the Army ) untill I believe Almagamation with the Royal Hussars.

3748 Hussar

[3748 Hussar]

Originally Posted by Alan Owen

That is it. Can you provide dates for when the Regt wore these embroidered beret badges? Elsewhere in the albums are pictures of the black a/a on no 1 dress hats with no backings as well.

In the early 1950s pictures they are wearing dark blue berets with no backings to the brass badges.

Alan

Alan,

They were also wearing this badge with the yellow backing (Oxford Yellow) in barrack dress/No 2 Dress .

3748 Hussar

[lettman]

If it can be trusted, the Badge Backings and Embellishments book gives 1979 as the date of introduction of the cloth beret badge as replacing the black a/a badge completely until 1984, when the black hawk with primrose yellow backing was re-adopted for 'all dress orders except exercise and in denim order, when the embroidered badge is still worn by WOs and below' (this is pre the amalgamation into the KRH, of course). Bodsworth supports the 1979 introduction date but gives no other details about how or for how long the cloth badge was worn.

[Mike H]

Originally Posted by lettman

If it can be trusted, the Badge Backings and Embellishments book gives 1979 as the date of introduction of the cloth beret badge as replacing the black a/a badge completely until 1984, when the black hawk with primrose yellow backing was re-adopted for 'all dress orders except exercise and in denim order, when the embroidered badge is still worn by WOs and below' (this is pre the amalgamation into the KRH, of course). Bodsworth supports the 1979 introduction date but gives no other details about how or for how long the cloth badge was worn.

Cloth badges were worn by some of the cavalry regts during the 80`s , 9/12L,16/5 L,14/20 H were the most common.
Strangely the KRH officers cloth badge is a gold hawk(on a cherry redddish colour background when worn on the sidehat) rather than the black hawk.Presumably the use of both colours must have been very significant other wise it would have been retained upon amalgamation.
I cant find any information as to when the gold was exchanged for the black hawk

[hagwalther]

Hi Guys,

I have purchased the badge in question from eBay and will include it in one of my chapters probably in relation to the badge maker LB&B.

If we can find any information on when the gold badge turned to black please post it here. At the moment I'm classifying it as an unofficial commission by LB&B with a marked slider. This is the only marked unofficial commission anodised badge that I know of.

Regards.

Chris

[3748 Hussar]

Originally Posted by lettman

If it can be trusted, the Badge Backings and Embellishments book gives 1979 as the date of introduction of the cloth beret badge as replacing the black a/a badge completely until 1984, when the black hawk with primrose yellow backing was re-adopted for 'all dress orders except exercise and in denim order, when the embroidered badge is still worn by WOs and below' (this is pre the amalgamation into the KRH, of course). Bodsworth supports the 1979 introduction date but gives no other details about how or for how long the cloth badge was worn.

Hi All,

I have been doing some further digging with reference time lines for the cloth beret badge . This I have been told was introduced prior to deployment to NI. Bodsworth 1979 date seems about right.

Regards

3748 Hussar

[lettman]

Originally Posted by hagwalther

Hi Guys,

I have purchased the badge in question from eBay and will include it in one of my chapters probably in relation to the badge maker LB&B.

If we can find any information on when the gold badge turned to black please post it here. At the moment I'm classifying it as an unofficial commission by LB&B with a marked slider. This is the only marked unofficial commission anodised badge that I know of.

Regards.

Chris

I forgot that I have the 5th edition of Edwards' Regimental Badges, which came out in 1968, and was revised by Arthur Kipling (my copy is actually signed by him!). The entry for the 14/20th describes the cap badge as 'black anodised', with no mention of a transition from a gilt version -- so clearly the black version was already around and established by 1968. Perhaps it was introduced in the mid-60s after all?

[Chrisr]

The first three editions of Edwards' Regimental Badges 1951, 1957 and 1963, give the 14th/20th Hussars cap badge as black japanned metal for officers and gilding metal for Other Ranks.

The fourth edition, 1966, describes it as black japanned metal for Officers and gold anodised for Other Ranks.

The fifth edition, 1968, description is Officers No 1 dress: black japanned metal, No 2 Dress: gilt. Other Ranks: Black anodised with orb, sceptre and lines on body in gilt.

Thus it would seem, if Edwards is correct, that the gold anodised badge was worn for a short period sometime between 1964 and 1967 and the black anodised introduced around 1967.

The second to fifth editions, 1957 - 1968, describe the beret badge as gold embroidery on a black cloth background. So it appears to have been introduced in the mid 1950's.

Hope this helps.

Cheers
Chris

[bess55]

Originally Posted by Chrisr

The first three editions of Edwards' Regimental Badges 1951, 1957 and 1963, give the 14th/20th Hussars cap badge as black japanned metal for officers and gilding metal for Other Ranks.

The fourth edition, 1966, describes it as black japanned metal for Officers and gold anodised for Other Ranks.

The fifth edition, 1968, description is Officers No 1 dress: black japanned metal, No 2 Dress: gilt. Other Ranks: Black anodised with orb, sceptre and lines on body in gilt.

Thus it would seem, if Edwards is correct, that the gold anodised badge was worn for a short period sometime between 1964 and 1967 and the black anodised introduced around 1967.

The second to fifth editions, 1957 - 1968, describe the beret badge as gold embroidery on a black cloth background. So it appears to have been introduced in the mid 1950's.

Hope this helps.

Cheers
Chris

Chris,
Many thanks on my behalf as that would appear to clear that one up nicely. I have only the 6th edition of Edwards, which is probably the most common.
Like most anodised collectors I have examples of both gilt and black versions of this badge, although the illusive 'left facing' hawk in black is evading me (can anyone shed light on that anomily?). Also have come across many gilt badges that have have been painted black in the relevant places, presumably to save waste when the change came and these are usually found made by Smith & Wright, of course an early anodised manufacturer.

To throw my spanner in the works is that I have an all silver version made by the London Badge and Button company. And no its not a Gurkha arm badge. It has a slider. I believe it to be a factory 'second' unless anyone can tell me otherwise.

Regards to all

Bess

[fougasse1940]

London Badge and Button Co are known to produce badges for military museum shops which differ from the regular badges.
Do they make regular badges as well?

Rgds,
fougasse1940.

[Artynut]

Can anyone shed light on this badge. I've had it since 1970 and what has bothered me is that I find no reference to the script FR on the hawk's chest in Gaylor or K.K. Another of my surplus to requirement when I thought to collect every British Regiment!...PS, It is not AA and I thought quite neat in the way the tang is stamped out to a point for the brazing point behind the head. Regards, David J.

[Alan O]

As you may be aware the 14/20 sucessors, the KRH have this monogram on their badge. I always thought that it came from the 14/20th. Could the badge with the monogram be a regtl affection sold in the PRI but without official authorisation?

Alan