Unknown Lion & Crown Badge

[Alan Y]

Hello all,

I’ve had this for quite a while but haven’t identified it yet. Approximately 2½” or about 64mm high in white metal and a disc made of a similar material to a dog tag which was fitted to it. Any comments on either greatly appreciated.

Regards Alan.

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[rockape560]

hi alan,

not sure what the badge is but looks like the top part of a 2 piece badge.

philip

[rockape560]

hi alan,

just found your badge on bad lads army.remember this series was national service training for the bad lads,so your badge is deffintley national service

philip

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dMzdSDrGU-4

[2747andy]

The ID disc looking item looks like a key fob?

Andy

[Alan Y]

Thanks Philip & Andy,

I had no idea the National Service had a badge of their own. I enjoyed the You Tube clip, I remember watching the series a few years back and had forgotten how good it was.

Regards Alan.

[David Tremain]

The crown with lion looks like an Extra Regimentally Employed badge.
David

[grey_green_acorn]

Could be Army Department Constabulary and a collar badge

Tim

[Phil2M]

Its the same design as ADC but far too big to be their collar badge. They are only about 3.5cm high.

Cheers

Phil

[grey_green_acorn]

Ah, missed the large dimensions - in that case it may represent the arm badge of the Royal Dragoons.

Tim

[Alan Y]

Thanks David, Tim and Phil,

I think if I remember right, when I bought the badge off ebay ages ago, the seller described it as a Royal West Kent collar badge. I had no idea of the dimensions from the images, and didn’t know that a RWK collar badge would be GM and not white metal, and it was only when I received the badge I realised it was not a collar badge.
I’ve never seen an Extra Regimentally Employed badge in any reference I have, so that’s interesting. I was also not aware of the Army Department Constabulary, so another good point, as is the Royal Dragoons Arm Badge.

Thanks for the replies, gentlemen – regards Alan.

[1stTankie]

Hi Alan

Could be an NCO' Arm Badge to 1st Royal Dragoons (black backing), 15th Hussars or 15th/19th Hussars, (red backing).

See Linaker and Dine.

Best wishes

Gordon

[Alan Y]

Hello Gordon,

Thanks for the information. I don’t have access to Lineker & Dine at the moment, but I will try and get a copy if I can. I’m still a bit new to some badges, would the arm badge be to denote the rank instead of stripes ?

Regards Alan.

[1stTankie]

Hi Alan

Special arm badges worn in some (but not all cavalry regiments) by WOs, senior NCOs and, in some regiments, even junior NCOs and trumpeters appears to have started in 1801 with the grant of a badge to the NCOs of the 15th King's Light Dragoons (Linaker and Dine).

Thereafter they were taken up by most of the Cavalry regiments and continue to this day. Notable exceptions were the 16th Lancers and 20th Hussars.

They are not in themselves indicative of rank, i.e. they are not "stand alone" badges of rank but are worn with the badge of rank either on or above the chevrons or, in the case of WOs, usually below the rank badge. They are worn in most forms of dress.

Cavalry Arm Badges are one of the more complex aspects of the hobby and if you wish to take it seriously may I suggest you obtain a copy of either "Cavalry Warrant Officers' and Non-Commissioned Officers' Arm Badges" by David Linaker and Gordon Dine or "Arm Badges of the British Cavalry Regiments" by Peter Seaman.

I hope this helps

Best wishes

Gordon

[Mike Jackson]

Originally Posted by Alan Y

Thanks Philip & Andy,

I had no idea the National Service had a badge of their own. I enjoyed the You Tube clip, I remember watching the series a few years back and had forgotten how good it was.

Regards Alan.

National Servicemen wore the insignia of their parent regiment or corps. The only visual discrimination I was aware of was that within 17 Trg Regt RA in 1960 all recruits wore coloured tapes on the shoulder straps in Battery colours eg 24 (Irish) Trg Bty RA - Green, 59 (Asten) Trg Bty RA - Orange etc. In the case of Regular recruits the coloured tape was bisected vertically by a piece of yellow tape - this gave rise to cracks like "green with a yellow streak"!

[Alan Y]

Thanks again Gordon,

A very helpful bit of information and it has helped very much with my limited understanding of cavalry arm badges. I will have a look on Amazon etc to see if I can get a copy of either of the books you have suggested as it looks like a very interesting area of badge collecting.

Thanks Mike,
Also a very interesting piece of information, I learn something every time I get a reply on the Forum,

Regards to all - Alan.