ASC white metal shoulder title

[paj1]

Hi guys
looking for opnions on this shoulder title
ive seen a few of these ASC titles in brass, but not in white metal it came
with some asc cap badges plus buttons all look to be genuine
opnions welcome
regards julian

[CftD]

What first class titles - and rare ! White metal titles were, generally, in use from the beginning of the TF period (1908) until (about) 1912, when they changed to brass. In commercial terms, I am always surprised that, because of the high level of interest in WW1, the white metal titles are often seen as poor relations with collectors almost preferring the later brass ones. Again, very nice titles.

[Peter Brydon]

I have always understood that generally white metal Territorial titles were worn in full dress and brass ones in service dress.

Obviously some exceptions like infantry territorial battalions that had rifle traditions.

P.B.

[CftD]

Originally Posted by 8thfoot

I have always understood that generally white metal Territorial titles were worn in full dress and brass ones in service dress.

Obviously some exceptions like infantry territorial battalions that had rifle traditions.

P.B.

PB Why would white metal titles be worn with gilded metal cap badges, collar badges and buttons ?

[Peter Brydon]

David,

Interesting to see what Westlake has to say in "Collecting Metal Shoulder Titles" on page 57 although I accept that is part of the chapter on Infantry Regiments.

P.B.

The attached is from the introduction to Westlake`s first book on shoulder titles
"Military Metal Shoulder Titles "Vol 1 published in 1977 ( bought from Roger Verner - a name from the past- for £5.65 )

[paj1]

P.B. and DAVID
thanks for your replys
regards julian

[fougasse1940]

This from "Badges & Insignia of the Royal Army Service Corps, Royal Corps of Transport & their predecessors" by Kellock & McHenry p. 45:
ASC Volunteer titles
Volunteers pre 1908 wore a V above the title and were organised in Infantry Brigades however evidence of specific ASC titles are hard to come by for this period. After the Territorial Force was formed in 1908, a T was placed over ASC and the title below. At first these titles were in white metal but they were soon changed to brass. these units were organised into Territorial Mounted Brigade Transport and Supply Columns ASC or Territorial Divisional Brigade Transport and Supply Columns ASC. From 1914 these titles gradually ceased to be worn as units were absorbed into regular units. The use of the letter "V" in the title was briefly resurected by the Volunteer Training Corps in 1914.

Rgds,
fougasse1940.

[fougasse1940]

Originally Posted by Counsel for the Defence

PB Why would white metal titles be worn with gilded metal cap badges, collar badges and buttons ?

ASC Volunteers wore white metal cap badges.

Rgds,
fougasse1940.

[CftD]

Originally Posted by fougasse1940

ASC Volunteers wore white metal cap badges.

Rgds,
fougasse1940.

If you read the posts thoroughly you will see that we were discussing the post 1908 period of the TF. There were no 'volunteers' post 1908.

[fougasse1940]

The most recent white metal badge in the above mentioned book is the 1911-1914 pattern badge, so from after the renaming of volunteers to Territorials.

Rgds,
fougasse1940.

[CftD]

Originally Posted by fougasse1940

The most recent white metal badge in the above mentioned book is the 1911-1914 pattern badge, so from after the renaming of volunteers to Territorials.

Rgds,
fougasse1940.

Absolutely right ! As I said previously, white metal 'T' titles were adopted post 1908 but didn't go much beyond 1912, to be replaced by brass. As for the ASC specifically, they wore white metal KC cap badges and collars as 'volunteers' from 1902 (although with 'V' titles) , so it is reasonable to believe (in my view) that they continued wearing them (the cap badges and collars) post 1908 with white metal 'T' titles until everything was replaced by brass.