Lancashire Fusiliers and East Lancs TF revisted - British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum

mooke07 · #1 09-09-11, 01:06 PM

Hi all,

A while ago Longshanks posted some pics of badges that were on eBay of the East Lancashire TF and Lancashire Fusiliers TF said to be from a WW1 hate belt. The Forum advice was that the blank scrolls looked to have had the Egypt erased after the original die striking. Longshanks passed on them.

I bid on a Devonshire badge and an Inniskilling Fusiliers badge that the seller had also listed from the same hate belt - I won and both were spot on with brazing holes etc and the Inniskillings is a very nice lugged one. On the strength of this I picked up the TF pair from the seller quite cheaply out of curiosity.

Indeed the plinths look erased by hand after manufacture and the reverse is then filled in so you cannot see the imprint of the Egypt at the rear of the plinth. The Forum gurus were right and Longshanks did ok to avoid.

They are shown alongside the rear of a regular East Lancs badge for comparision where you can see the Egypt imprint.

I have a genuine Lancs Fusiliers TF with blank plinth but missing the grenade flames - so my question is do I throw myself at the mercy of wizard Dave and see if he could take the flames from the dud one across to the good one?

The East Lancs is just a lesson!

Cheers Dean.

Keith Blakeman · #2 09-09-11, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mooke07

I have a genuine Lancs Fusiliers TF with blank plinth but missing the grenade flames - so my question is do I throw myself at the mercy of wizard Dave and see if he could take the flames from the dud one across to the good one?

The East Lancs is just a lesson!

Cheers Dean.

I'm sure Dave could but the question is your conscience!

I have a similar quandary. A while back I won the bottom half of a shoulder title VR/MIDDLESEX for peanuts. The upper part 25 was the next listing but being sold as a CEF collar and I lost the bloody thing despite putting in a hefty bid. After contacting the seller who put me onto the buyer I explained they hadn't bought what they thought they had but to no avail. Now I have a T/25/LONDON title where the numbers exactly match (using Westlake as an guide) those I don't have and cannibalising it isn't exactly difficult as being a blackened badge the repairs could be easily hidden including correct loop location.

An old school Middlesex collector I know doesn't have one of these in his collection, it's that rare and the last one in a postal auction went for about £180 + fees from memory.

I could do it for display purposes but what the point, it'll never sit happily in my collection. I could do it for financial gain but that's not the way I do things.

2747andy · #3 09-09-11, 05:31 PM

I think matching good with bad for our own collections is a personal matter, The LF badge shown above is Edwardian (whooooops stand by, stand by!) and although it looks like it's had "Egypt" erased I would never dream of cutting that one up! There are plenty of broken LF badges floating about so I'd wait a wee while, I'm sure I sent some flames with a slider up to Dave some time ago? He may still have the flames and could I'm sure remedy your broken badge!

I've got a King's Colonials missing it's plumes, of which I have the same dilema, a N.Staffs E.I. would make an ideal donor, but I'd never dream of breaking one badge just to fix another! I was going to buy a repro "KC" off ebay, as chopping a repro to fix a broken genuine badge must be a good move (for own collection and not for selling on!!)

Andy

Keith Blakeman · #4 09-09-11, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2747andy

I think matching good with bad for our own collections is a personal matter, The LF badge shown above is Edwardian (whooooops stand by, stand by!) and although it looks like it's had "Egypt" erased I would never dream of cutting that one up! There are plenty of broken LF badges floating about so I'd wait a wee while, I'm sure I sent some flames with a slider up to Dave some time ago? He may still have the flames and could I'm sure remedy your broken badge!

I've got a King's Colonials missing it's plumes, of which I have the same dilema, a N.Staffs E.I. would make an ideal donor, but I'd never dream of breaking one badge just to fix another! I was going to buy a repro "KC" off

Andy

And what gives you the right to say it's Edwardian. What evidence do you have. Etc, etc.?

CftD · #5 09-09-11, 05:38 PM

Can anyone say with impunity that Egypt scrolls were not erased on an official basis ? Much is said about 'erasure' but I would contend that many a regular bn. badge was adopted to suit a TF requirement. Not being an 'expert' I merely offer an opinion and look forward to comments. David

CftD · #6 09-09-11, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keith Blakeman

And what gives you the right to say it's Edwardian. What evidence do you have. Etc, etc.?

Good point Keith - I wonder what relevant answer you will get. David

2747andy · #7 09-09-11, 05:39 PM

The very reason, I would not dream of butchering a Genuine Edwardian badge!

Andy

badger123 · #8 09-09-11, 06:21 PM

Keith it is good to see that a sense of humour prevails even if others have missed the point.

I have a little bit of knowledge about badges but that knowledge has increased incredibly by being a member of this forum and reading what people such as yourself, Andy, 8th Foot, Joachim etc etc etc have presented.

I would bow down to such experience and knowledge and if one of you gives what appears to be a logical reason for a certain badge being Edwardian, I would be inclined to listen and take that on board. On the other hand, if certain other people gave their opinion, I would be less inclined to take their advice on board.

For me, the real acid test is would I buy a badge from this person? For the answer please see my comments above.

Ivan

2747andy · #9 09-09-11, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Counsel for the Defence

Good point Keith - I wonder what relevant answer you will get. David

David,
please do not lower the tone of the Forum, you have managed to hold your poisonous tongue all week! I am happy to accept the FACT that these infantry badges are Genuine period Edwardian items, a point of view I have gleaned from being a member of this Forum! If some want to close their eyes an ears to the facts then that is their choice.... Remember the poll is still running so behave yourself...

http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/for...ad.php?t=19052

Your acid is not one of the Forums best aspects... Even I would admit you have contributed in the manner of a grown up (well almost) this week and not the child that you sometimes insist on being?

Andy

Sonofacqms · #10 09-09-11, 06:52 PM

Whilst I can see the suspicion behind regular badges having their scrolls blanked, I would not dismiss this practice as the perogative of the fakers. I have a blanked scroll badge that started life as a VB. On careful inspection the VB can be seen.

mooke07 · #11 23-09-12, 05:24 PM

Nice patina on that badge Alan. I like the tabs as well. A good badge in my opinion. Not an easy one to get right with the whole notion of badges being regimentally altered as was discussed in this thread causing reasonable anxiety.

Cheers Dean

LONGSHANKS · #12 23-09-12, 08:40 PM

I bid on that one, so 60 was too much then Alan. Did you win it.

Simon

JimD · #13 24-09-12, 12:53 AM

This thread has made me have a rethink of a Lancashire Fusiliers badge I have had in my "I Dunno" box for a while. What do others think of it?

Cheers
Jim

BILL DUGGAN · #14 24-09-12, 08:11 AM

Hi Lads, this LF TA badge was bought from a private seller that I contacted through the pages of SOLDIER magazine around late 70's early 80's.

He seemed a genuine chap who said it once belonged to his uncle who was a 'Terrier'

That was the main way to build a collection in the pre internet days.

The plinth under the sphinx has no trace of any 'dimpling' front 'n' back.

I have blank plinth badges of various regiments. All without 'dimpling'.

You need to ask 'why is the dimpling there ?'.

Very 'suss'................Bill