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  #1  
Old 17-01-17, 09:44 PM
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Default Scratch Bright?

I wonder if anyone has come across the term “scratch bright” before? I assume that this is nothing to do with staybrite/staybright badges (anodised aluminium), as the reference I have to “scratch bright” is specifically to do with officers’ badges. If anyone could enlighten me on its exact meaning I’d be most grateful. Thank you.

Regards

Martin
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  #2  
Old 18-01-17, 02:07 AM
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We have a product over here called scotch bright. Its an abrasive pad made from nylon in different grades. Maybe someone used this to polish a badge? Cheers Brian
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  #3  
Old 18-01-17, 07:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Ticker' Riley View Post
I wonder if anyone has come across the term “scratch bright” before? I assume that this is nothing to do with staybrite/staybright badges (anodised aluminium), as the reference I have to “scratch bright” is specifically to do with officers’ badges. If anyone could enlighten me on its exact meaning I’d be most grateful. Thank you.

Regards

Martin
Hi Martin,

I believe that scratch brushed and bright dipping refers to mechanically finishing the surface of the badge with wire brushes, followed by bright dipping which is a peroxidising process that stops the metal tarnishing after the initial brightening.

Australian army badges manufactured during the 1930s were required to be finished by these processes.

Keith
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  #4  
Old 18-01-17, 08:18 PM
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Default Leicesters “scratch bright” gilt with silver-plated scrolls badge

Hello Brian and Keith

Many thanks for your replies gentlemen - I am grateful to both of you for the suggestions. I’m pretty sure “scratch bright” isn’t anything to do the ‘scotch bright’ pads you talk about Brian, though I can see where you are coming from with this. It might be more like what you describe Keith, though maybe if I explain the context a little more that might help?

The reference in question comes from a piece in the Green Tiger, Vol. XXV, No. 5, February 1950, p. 158, about badges for the Leicestershire Regiment, and is specifically with regard to the smaller “new “reduced” (three-quarters) size badge”:


As you can see, the above talks about the “Three-quarters” size badge to be worn by officers on the blue forage (peaked) cap being ““scratch bright” gilt with silver-plated scrolls”. I assume here that it was specifically the “gilt” that was “scratch bright”, so would this fit with your “scratch brushed and bright dipping” technique Keith, or not??

Best regards

Martin
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From Hindoostan, Gibraltar and Almanza; to Dunblane, Alma and Brandywine: Tigers, Steelbacks, Dutch Guards, Leather Hats, Nanny Goats and Red Feathers!
Interested in style and variation of post-1893 regimental cap badges for the Leicesters, the Northamptons, the Warwicks, the K.L.R., the R.W.F. and the D.C.L.I.

“Scutelliphiliacus in vestri insignia pergaudete”
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  #5  
Old 19-01-17, 06:43 AM
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To be honest Martin I couldn't say in regard to 'scratch bright' gilt. I would have assumed the officers' collar badge finish would have been a sort of dead gilt with polished highlights.

The Australian badges were simply gilding metal, in fact the material term of 'gilding metal' was replaced by 'brass' about 1931. It was an overall shiny surface probably similiar to British OR badges of the same period.

Keith
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  #6  
Old 19-01-17, 08:10 PM
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Default “scratch brushed and bright dipping” versus “scratch bright”

Hi Keith

Many thanks for your latest response. When I re-read your initial posting of yesterday I thought it didn’t quite sound like the kind of process you would get with gilding, and your latest comments confirm this when you talk about it being used on gilding metal/brass. So in effect this “scratch brushed and bright dipping” was a polishing technique, followed by a chemical dip to preserve the shine. Whereas it seems the term “scratch bright”, in relation to the Leicesters badge noted in the Green Tiger piece, was a kind of gilding, but exactly which type of gilding is the question? By the way, the badge referred to is actually a cap badge, not the collars, and was to be worn on officers’ No. 1 dress caps. I wonder if anyone else has any thoughts on the gilding method that this “scratch bright” is referring to??

Best regards

Martin
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From Hindoostan, Gibraltar and Almanza; to Dunblane, Alma and Brandywine: Tigers, Steelbacks, Dutch Guards, Leather Hats, Nanny Goats and Red Feathers!
Interested in style and variation of post-1893 regimental cap badges for the Leicesters, the Northamptons, the Warwicks, the K.L.R., the R.W.F. and the D.C.L.I.

“Scutelliphiliacus in vestri insignia pergaudete”
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  #7  
Old 25-01-17, 01:50 PM
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I'm having the impression it is similar (or the same) to frosted silver.
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  #8  
Old 25-01-17, 06:30 PM
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Default “scratch bright” gilding?

Hi Luc

Many thanks for taking the time to reply to my postings, but the way I read things is that the “scratch bright” refers specifically to the “gilt”, i.e. the gold, and not to the “silver-plated scrolls”. Sadly I know very little about gilding processes, though I’ve heard of ‘fire-gilt’, which I believe was an old method. I’ve also seen the term ‘gold wash’, but don’t really understand what this means. Maybe some forum members have experience or knowledge about gilding techniques back in the 1950s? Anyhow, thank you again for your response.

Best regards

Martin
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From Hindoostan, Gibraltar and Almanza; to Dunblane, Alma and Brandywine: Tigers, Steelbacks, Dutch Guards, Leather Hats, Nanny Goats and Red Feathers!
Interested in style and variation of post-1893 regimental cap badges for the Leicesters, the Northamptons, the Warwicks, the K.L.R., the R.W.F. and the D.C.L.I.

“Scutelliphiliacus in vestri insignia pergaudete”
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  #9  
Old 25-01-17, 09:36 PM
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The terms used with gilding are dead gilt versus burnished gilt?

Rgds, Thomas.
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  #10  
Old 26-01-17, 08:42 PM
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Default Gilt and gilding

Hello Thomas

Many thanks for your posting. Would I be correct in what is meant by ‘dead gilt’ and ‘burnished gilt’ is specifically the finish of the gilding? As such, would ‘dead gilt’ be a dull finish, whilst ‘burnished gilt’ a polished one? It seems rather than ‘fire-gilt’ I should have said ‘fire-gilding’, which I believe is a kind of gilding process. What would the actual gilding process have been in the late 1940s and early 1950s? Was a new technique introduced at this time at all?

Best regards

Martin
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From Hindoostan, Gibraltar and Almanza; to Dunblane, Alma and Brandywine: Tigers, Steelbacks, Dutch Guards, Leather Hats, Nanny Goats and Red Feathers!
Interested in style and variation of post-1893 regimental cap badges for the Leicesters, the Northamptons, the Warwicks, the K.L.R., the R.W.F. and the D.C.L.I.

“Scutelliphiliacus in vestri insignia pergaudete”
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  #11  
Old 26-01-17, 08:48 PM
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Well dead silver finish is the type used on the all ranks RGJ badge and the Rifles cap and beret badge too. It's almost like somebody has left the cleaning solution on to dry . So you get a dulled silver finish rather than bright silver.
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  #12  
Old 26-01-17, 10:04 PM
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Sorry, double posting.

Last edited by fougasse1940; 27-01-17 at 01:09 AM. Reason: double posting
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  #13  
Old 26-01-17, 10:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Ticker' Riley View Post
Would I be correct in what is meant by ‘dead gilt’ and ‘burnished gilt’ is specifically the finish of the gilding?
Yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Ticker' Riley View Post
As such, would ‘dead gilt’ be a dull finish, whilst ‘burnished gilt’ a polished one?
Yes to both.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Ticker' Riley View Post
It seems rather than ‘fire-gilt’ I should have said ‘fire-gilding’, which I believe is a kind of gilding process.
Yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Ticker' Riley View Post
What would the actual gilding process have been in the late 1940s and early 1950s? Was a new technique introduced at this time at all?
Sorry, I don't know.

Rgds, Thomas.
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  #14  
Old 27-01-17, 07:18 PM
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Default Gilding and gilt

Hi Thomas

Many thanks for the reply, and for clarifying things for me. I suppose what we really need is someone who actually worked in the industry at the time, and who might then know about the gilding processes at the time? Anyhow, thank you again for putting me on the straight and narrow with gilt and gilding - much appreciated.

Best regards

Martin
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From Hindoostan, Gibraltar and Almanza; to Dunblane, Alma and Brandywine: Tigers, Steelbacks, Dutch Guards, Leather Hats, Nanny Goats and Red Feathers!
Interested in style and variation of post-1893 regimental cap badges for the Leicesters, the Northamptons, the Warwicks, the K.L.R., the R.W.F. and the D.C.L.I.

“Scutelliphiliacus in vestri insignia pergaudete”
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  #15  
Old 27-01-17, 07:32 PM
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I'm sorry not to have had as much time to look at this thread as I would have wished.
I had no clue about 'scratch bright' at first but as I caught glimpses of the contributions it occurred to me that it might be related to what Major Edwards stated in the first (1951) edition of his celebrated ‘Regimental Badges’ - that ‘great changes [to badges] are afoot’ and specifically that ‘In future all officer’s badges, normally made in silver, will be in silver plate’.

I have a hunch that "frosted" silver superseded "silver plate" but I might be wrong - in any case, I'd love to know when FS first appeared !
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