Guards Para

[red rags]

Why do Para Guardsmen wear the Para cap badge & not their own cap badge ?

Hi, where does it say that? back in the day, always wore their own cap badges - Regards

[red rags]

A C Gds drill instructor who has just retired gave me his maroon beret with Gds flash & Para badge...
Also the 1960 I Gds yr book which has a head & shoulders shot of EVERY member of the Regt (inc recruits) shows I Gds Pathfinders wearing Para capo badges.

In which case it must have been short lived, possibly 16 Independent Guards Company? I doubt 'Horseguards' would have sanctioned that for very long! 'Guardsmen wearing a Para Cap badge, not the done thing you know' let alone the pay office headache! Could be a rare thing indeed. Regards Mark

Red Rags, i stand corrected, just checked paradata, Guards Bn, 1 Gds Coy, 16 Ind, all wearing Para Cap badge 1956-68. You learn something everyday! They even have their own association - Regards

[Alan O]

You are thinking of the Gds Pl in 3 Para who wear the Para cap badge on a Guards Blue Red Blue backing. They are drawn from all Gds Bns.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZHuXVHU8k4

[Colin S]

Guardsmen serving with the Guards Independent Parachute Company and later with the Guards Platoon in 3 PARA have only worn the Parachute Regiment cap badge.

I think this was because service with the Parachute Regiment was originally for volunteers who were seconded from their parent regiments, so the parent regiment badge was dropped during the secondment to the Paras. As the Guardsmen in the Gds Ind Para Coy were from different foot guards regiments, there would have been no uniformity if they retained their parent regiment badge.

Where there have been formed units from the Household Cavalry serving in Airborne Forces since the 1980s, they have worn the cap badge of their unit, as they are not being seconded to the Airborne Forces infantry (i.e. the Parachute Regiment).

The occasional Guards officer serving on the Brigade staff will retain their own cap badge, as do Guardsmen posted to the Pathfinder Platoon.

[Tommo]

Originally Posted by Colin S

Where there have been formed units from the Household Cavalry serving in Airborne Forces since the 1980s, they have worn the cap badge of their unit, as they are not being seconded to the Airborne Forces infantry (i.e. the Parachute Regiment).

The occasional Guards officer serving on the Brigade staff will retain their own cap badge, as do Guardsmen posted to the Pathfinder Platoon.

The last being D Sqn, the HCR. Wearing their own capbadge, Household Div backing on Maroon lid.

I have seen that a few times with the Royal Regt of Scots, Mercian Regt, SASC and others.

Interestingly, the Irish Guard here has his capbadge on Maroon with the London District Formation Sign.
https://www.facebook.com/armyjobs/vi...1926609171408/

[Colin S]

Very interesting film clip.......he's wearing wings, so must have served in the Air Assault Brigade, but the London District formation badge would suggest he is now serving with the Guards in the capital. As such, his regimental beret should be kharki. Recruiting staff? I know that the Household Cavalry allowed parachute qualified personnel (i.e. those who have passed P Company) to wear maroon berets even when they were not in the airborne role - perhaps this has spread to the Foot Guards too? Having said that, I knew a Guardsman who served with the Pathfinders but had to revert to a khaki beret on his return to the Scots Gds back in 2001.

[tynesideirish]

Originally Posted by Colin S

I think this was because service with the Parachute Regiment was originally for volunteers who were seconded from their parent regiments, so the parent regiment badge was dropped during the secondment to the Paras. As the Guardsmen in the Gds Ind Para Coy were from different foot guards regiments, there would have been no uniformity if they retained their parent regiment badge.

The Guards Para's wear the Parachute Regiment badge because they are de-facto parents of both the Parachute Regiment and Special Air Service. Both units being set up by, staffed and trained by influencial & /or high ranking Guards Officers.

[Colin S]

Very true with regard to the SAS, as both Jock Lewis and David Stirling and Bill Stirling were all Guards officers and the SAS always recruited many Guards officers and ORs. Not so encompassing for early airborne forces and the Parachute Regiment. Granted that Browning was a Grenadier, but John Rock was RE, Eric Down was Dorsets, Richard Gale was Worcestershire Regiment, Hopkinson was North Staffords, Roy Urquhart was HLI etc. Given that 11th SAS Bn (1st Para Bn) evolved from No.2 Commando, it could be argued that the Parachute Regiment originated as an off shoot from Dudley Clarkes Commandos, and he was RA. The Guards influence should not be over estimated here.

[Tommo]

Originally Posted by Colin S

Very interesting film clip.......he's wearing wings, so must have served in the Air Assault Brigade, but the London District formation badge would suggest he is now serving with the Guards in the capital. As such, his regimental beret should be kharki. Recruiting staff? I know that the Household Cavalry allowed parachute qualified personnel (i.e. those who have passed P Company) to wear maroon berets even when they were not in the airborne role - perhaps this has spread to the Foot Guards too? Having said that, I knew a Guardsman who served with the Pathfinders but had to revert to a khaki beret on his return to the Scots Gds back in 2001.

I'm not sure the reasoning behind it? And it's not explained in the video, no wings, but maroon lid, with London flash.

When I was last at Pirbright there were staff there who were not in an Airborne unit (yet) but had passed P-Coy and were encouraged to, and wore the Maroon beret, however, no DZ only the TRF e.g. RLC TRF not 13 Regt DZ.

I did see some people sporting green lids too.

[Alan O]

In training establishments it is common for ex -Para/Cdo attached personnel to wear the beret. As they are no longer with 3 Cdo/16 Bde then they do not wear the TRF/DZ but revert to the standard ones.

[Colin S]

The Guardsman in the film did have wings (you can see them later in the film). It is common practice, if unofficial, for instructors in training establishments to wear maroon or green berets if they have properly qualified for them in a previous unit, as it is meant to inspire the trainees to aspire to achieve that status themselves.

With regard to REME, RAMC, RLC etc wearing maroon berets but without wings, this is now common, as the maroon lid is issued upon posting into a support unit of 16th Air Assault Brigade. There is no formal requirement to be parachute qualified to serve in units such as the 13 Air Assault Regt RLC or 16 Medical Regt or for members to pass the All Arms Pre Parachute Selection course. Other Brigade units such as 7 Para RHA and 23 Engr Regt take the parachuting role seriously, but even they are not fully staffed by para qualified soldiers. The only way to tell if a soldier has passed P Company is to see if they wear parachute wings (or not). Only the Parachute Regiment recruits still have to earn their maroon beret the hard way, and its status has unfortunately been devalued by its issue to all the Brigade's troops. For example, it is issued to all men of the 2nd Bn Royal Gurkha Rifles, who are magnificent soldiers, but very few of them are parachute qualified or have completed P Company.

The green commando beret is now the only beret that has to be earned by passing the Commando course for all those wearing it. (The SAS sandy beret is issued to support staff without selection, although the 'winged dagger' beret badge is reserved to those 'badged' after passing SAS Selection.)

[Tommo]

Originally Posted by Colin S

The only way to tell if a soldier has passed P Company is to see if they wear parachute wings (or not).

P Smocks are now issued to those who have passed P-Coy, another unwritten rule is the 'peaking' of berets, which tends to be done by those who have passed P-Coy and frowned upon by those who have not. People can earn wings without doing P-Coy (Arduous courses etc) but that's going off on a tangent.