Embroidered Red on Blue Bandmaster Badge - Royal Marines?

[Paddy]

Hello All

I have recently obtained the badge pictured below. The seller mentioned that it could be a Royal Marines badge but I am yet to be convinced. The red on blue RM bandmaster badge of lyre & wreath surmounted by crown is mentioned in AFO 2550 of 1955 and has the VOCAB number 32923. I have never seen a picture of one of these badges so would appreciate any views on this badge. Where there any army units that wore this badge as red on blue or is it more likely to be Royal Marines?. The badge is approx 65mm tall by 55mm wide.

Paddy

[sapper533]

Might it be for Guards Athol Grey Greatcoat?

[Mike H]

Im pretty sure that the Guards only wear rank badges on the greatcoat.

[sapper533]

The Drum Major certainly wears a drum in these colours in Great Coat Order

[Paddy]

Mike & Sapper

Many thanks for your replies. I did initially consider the guards but have never seen this badge in JSP 768 but have seen the red on blue drum badge in there as mentioned by Sapper.

Paddy

[1664]

Hi Paddy
I don’t think this was worn by Marines. In the late Victorian period and early ED V11 you see photos of band masters wearing this pattern badge in metal. But it dies out with the introduction of warrant rank and commissioned band masters. The badge evolves into the musicians branch badge by 1950 but only appears in metal, the QC version is in staybright. These were replaced in 1970 by cloth lyres as the branch badge, but without the crown.

Another one has just appeared on eBay.
Yours
John

[Paddy]

John

Many thanks for your reply. Do you think that AFO 2550 of 1955 is incorrect then? I have attached a cutting from the AFO which gives the old & new VOCAB numbers for all the Bandmaster badges which does imply that a red on blue one was worn but I have also attached a cutting from Dress Regs of December 1955 which would tend to back up your statement as it does not mention a red on blue, just metal, gold on blue, khaki and khaki drill. I have also attached pictures of the different versions, fortunately with VOCAB numbers still attached. If you look at the back of the gold on blue badge you will see that the VOCAB appears to be 32923 which is the one allocated to the red on blue version in AFO 2550. In the AFO the gold on blue should be 31923.

Paddy

[1664]

Paddy
The problem with the documents is curious, often there is a delay between practice and regulations, and then getting all the documents updated. It’s a bit of a judgment call, and if the badge is worn for another purpose (RN Volunteer bands is possible for this one) it disappears from dress regs for the marines but remains in the catalogue.

I’m only ever really confident when I have three things, the documentary references, the actual badge and a picture of it been worn, and even the latter can be a mine field, one of the photographers at Deal had a preWar full dress SNCOs tunic he took photos of recruits in until the 1960s.

Good hunting
John