SAS Cap badge - Design History required

[Arthur 257]

Can anyone tell me how the SAS cap badge was designed?

[Unknownsoldier]

I believe it was designed in Cairo by one of the units member but can't for the life of me remember whom.

Tom

[HamandJam]

It was designed in 1941 by Sergeant Bob Tait who was a nco in L-detachment Special Air Service the first unit designation of sas. The motto who dares wins is from David Stirling. The sword is exalibur the sword of King Arthur and not a fairbairn sykes dagger. The dark blue and camdridge blue refer to Oxford and Cambridge were Jock Lewis studied. Jock rowed for Oxford and an officer called Langton rowed for Cambridge. Cheers JB

[David Tremain]

Hamandjam is correct. It's referred to in a number of the more recent books about the early origins of the SAS. One that springs to mind is 'Sterling's Men'. Can't remember the author, but you can Google it. There's a couple of other titles, but I'll have to look them up. It may also be mentioned in Virginia Cowles's 'The Phantom Major', an early account of David Sterling.

[Roy]

I could be wrong here but I seem to recall reading somewhere that the design was supposed to be a Fairbairn Sykes knife but the maker did not know what that was but 'everyone' knew about Excaliber, so that is what he used!

Regards, Roy.

[HamandJam]

Hi Roy

There is a lot of counfusion about it as the badge is known as the winged dagger. I have also seen somewhere a reference sword of Damocles. The most times I have seen however is reference to Exalibur. Also when you look at the badge it is clearly not a FS knive but a sword. The commando insignia however have the FS dagger like No 2 commando and thecommando brigades dagger.

Cheers
JB

[johanwiegman]

Guys,

I think the name 'Winged Dagger' came into use after Roy Farran (2nd SAS) published his book 'Winged Dagger, adventures on Special Service' in 1948.

I believe it was meant to be the sword Excalibur, the magic sword of King Arthur, that according to legend, was thrown into a lake and would come back when England needed it... See illustration.

best regards,

Johan

[Luc]

"L" detachment was created in July 1941, the 1st pattern FS knife was introduced only half a year earlier and I'm not sure it was by then already issued to SAS members on a large scale. So I'm going to stick with J-B's explanation that it represents Excalibur.

[Arthur 257]

Thank you all for your replies, I think that you have all answered my query.
Arthur 257

[tynesideirish]

Sorry to dredge up old threads, but I've been reading some I missed. FS Dagger or Excaliber. It was neither. JB hinted at it earlier. It was the Sword of Damocles, that's why it's Pointing downwards.

Damocles Dared and Won. (He later recanted and returned to a safer life.) It was thought up by the Classics reader Jock Lewes who told Cpl Tait to come up with a badge featuring the sword. The badge was found to be too expensive in Brass so It was changed to cloth. It was supposed to be Flames but the original maker thought they where wings and when the initial cloth batch arrived with Blue wings instead of red flames it stood.

[Mike Jackson]

It's interesting that whilst the Greek Raiding Force Units adopted the SAS motto (albeit translated), the Damoclean sword was inverted and was presented as what appears to be a Greek sword, point up.

[54Bty]

Originally Posted by Mike Jackson

It's interesting that whilst the Greek Raiding Force Units adopted the SAS motto (albeit translated), the Damoclean sword was inverted and was presented as what appears to be a Greek sword, point up.

And still worn today.

Marc

[trackman]

Hi, I think the following is correct, I read it somewhere, there was a competition to see who came up with the best badge design, Duncan Tait's design was chosen, he knew it was the "Sword of Damocles" meaning, if you hear someone say "The Sword of Damocles is hanging over them or him" something very bad will happen to them or It will fall on you at any time. This makes sense. BUT, the officers and some others thought/assumed it was Excalibur so its was named as so for a while until he informed them of what it was, who knows how long this took, my guess is that both names were used, or may be it has never been corrected or for that matter did anyone care? as they had far more worrying things to think about, after all they now had a badge. "the Winged Dagger"

[Padre]

It's true it was a competition amongst the units members, something confirmed by several of them in more recent years.

[Royal]

Its certainly a sword, not a dagger and is referred to as such in official MoD documentation to this day.

As to Damocles vs Excaliber within the wider UKSF, the monument at Poole is very much the latter as it includes the arm coming out of the water...