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  #1  
Old 17-03-19, 04:45 PM
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Default Printed Para Titles

I realized recently that printed Para titles that were issued in the late 40s could be found with different variants depending on the type of fabric. It is well documented that the Calico Printers Association used two types of fabric for producing the printed Pegasus, either drill #2 cotton of coarse weave or a satin drill #2 cotton fine weave (source O. Lock).
The shoulder titles were printed on cotton twill material that offers better stiffness.
In looking at various samples, I can at least identify two types of fabric for the printed Para titles (1st photo). A close-up view (photo 2) shows clearly the weave differences.
I’m not too familiar with other printed titles issued in the British Army during WW2 but it is possible that similar type of fabrics could have been used as photo 3 suggests (2 titles of the Corps of Military Police).

Your thoughts and suggestions are much appreciated.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Comp Fabric.jpg (62.1 KB, 129 views)
File Type: jpg Comp Macro Shots.jpg (119.1 KB, 109 views)
File Type: jpg CMP Comp.jpg (53.1 KB, 116 views)
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  #2  
Old 17-03-19, 09:22 PM
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I'd be interested to see a clear photograph of the top CMP title, it looks a little strange.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tcrown View Post
I realized recently that printed Para titles that were issued in the late 40s could be found with different variants depending on the type of fabric. It is well documented that the Calico Printers Association used two types of fabric for producing the printed Pegasus, either drill #2 cotton of coarse weave or a satin drill #2 cotton fine weave (source O. Lock).
The shoulder titles were printed on cotton twill material that offers better stiffness.
In looking at various samples, I can at least identify two types of fabric for the printed Para titles (1st photo). A close-up view (photo 2) shows clearly the weave differences.
I’m not too familiar with other printed titles issued in the British Army during WW2 but it is possible that similar type of fabrics could have been used as photo 3 suggests (2 titles of the Corps of Military Police).

Your thoughts and suggestions are much appreciated.
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  #3  
Old 17-03-19, 10:10 PM
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From other printed titles, it can be seen that some have the plain black backs whilst others have the design bleeding thru as you see on the printed pegasus and airborne titles
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Old 18-03-19, 12:40 AM
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Default Printed para titles

It is known that post-1945 printed titles were being produced in Hong Kong for wear by units transiting through. The R Leic's look horrible but they came from an ex-member of the regiment.
I attach a specimen of Royal Leicestershire, but I'm also aware of a ROYAL ENGINEER and MIDDLESEX items.

See Formation Sign No241 for details.

Stephen.
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File Type: jpg R Leics printed title Korean War.jpg (42.2 KB, 104 views)
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Old 19-03-19, 10:14 AM
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An example of the two types I mentioned above, both for the RA.
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File Type: jpg RA printed title pairs two types comp.jpg (35.8 KB, 101 views)
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  #6  
Old 19-03-19, 10:52 AM
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The Calico Printers Association operated around a dozen separate print works which, combined with the wartime restrictions on materials may explain the variations in these titles.

Jon
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Old 22-03-19, 12:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Kelley View Post
I'd be interested to see a clear photograph of the top CMP title, it looks a little strange.
The photo is extracted from O. Lock's book. Hope the site owner won't be too upset!
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Old 22-03-19, 12:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by badjez View Post
It is known that post-1945 printed titles were being produced in Hong Kong for wear by units transiting through. The R Leic's look horrible but they came from an ex-member of the regiment.
I attach a specimen of Royal Leicestershire, but I'm also aware of a ROYAL ENGINEER and MIDDLESEX items.

See Formation Sign No241 for details.

Stephen.
Thanks for sharing.
I don't think it was the case for the Parachute Regiment. All pale blue printed titles were likely produced in UK.
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Old 22-03-19, 12:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JBBOND View Post
An example of the two types I mentioned above, both for the RA.
Thanks for sharing, Jerry.

I think we can see the two types of fabric on the two pairs of RA titles as well similar to the Para titles I posted .
The backs are plain black on both Para titles. No bleeding on these either because of the twill material used, probably thicker.
Do you see a thinner type of fabric on your RA title?
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File Type: jpg RA Printed.jpg (36.3 KB, 31 views)
File Type: jpg RA Printed 2.jpg (37.1 KB, 36 views)
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  #10  
Old 22-03-19, 12:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Postwarden View Post
The Calico Printers Association operated around a dozen separate print works which, combined with the wartime restrictions on materials may explain the variations in these titles.

Jon
You may be right, Jon.
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  #11  
Old 22-03-19, 08:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tcrown View Post
Thanks for sharing, Jerry.

I think we can see the two types of fabric on the two pairs of RA titles as well similar to the Para titles I posted .
The backs are plain black on both Para titles. No bleeding on these either because of the twill material used, probably thicker.
Do you see a thinner type of fabric on your RA title?
Looking at them, the black backed pair appear to be exactly that, there seems to be a thin black material bonded to the printed fronts with the design, whilst the bleed thru pair do not have the backing and feel thinner and softer, presumably because the do not have the backing.

I'll have to compare with my other black backed titles to see if they are the same or are they printed directly onto black fabric.
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  #12  
Old 27-03-19, 12:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JBBOND View Post
Looking at them, the black backed pair appear to be exactly that, there seems to be a thin black material bonded to the printed fronts with the design,...
Yes Jerry, that's what I call the twill material. This is I believe the fabric that was used for the printed para titles.

Another example of the two types of weave with these RASC titles, both black backed.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg RASC.jpg (74.7 KB, 39 views)
File Type: jpg RASC 3.jpg (62.3 KB, 40 views)
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  #13  
Old 08-04-19, 02:38 AM
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Default Weave

The weaves were changed during the war in order to offset issues that arose in the quality of printing on coarse weave material. It was thought that it would be easier to print smaller details on the finer satin weave. We have documents here in Ottawa from the UK discussing the reasons. They were always experimenting with dyes, weaves etc. to extend the life of the insignia.

Ken
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  #14  
Old 10-04-19, 12:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Force136 View Post
The weaves were changed during the war in order to offset issues that arose in the quality of printing on coarse weave material. It was thought that it would be easier to print smaller details on the finer satin weave. We have documents here in Ottawa from the UK discussing the reasons. They were always experimenting with dyes, weaves etc. to extend the life of the insignia.

Ken
Thank you very much for your input, Ken.
The finer weave material was indeed used later in the war for the second version of printed Pegasus. I didn't know this was also the case for other printed insignias like shoulder titles.
Would you happen to know when the decision was made? Are the documents you refer to available for consultation at the War Museum in Ottawa?
Cheers
Pierre
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  #15  
Old 10-04-19, 02:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tcrown View Post
Thanks for sharing, Jerry.

I think we can see the two types of fabric on the two pairs of RA titles as well similar to the Para titles I posted .
The backs are plain black on both Para titles. No bleeding on these either because of the twill material used, probably thicker.
Do you see a thinner type of fabric on your RA title?
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We dont mind images being used for informative threads and references in threads but would like to be asked 1st and a credit for them would be good cheers steve
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