East Surrey No Scroll Construction - British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum

mojob123 · #1 16-01-23, 11:14 PM

Been after one of these descrolled East Surrey Regiment badges for a while and finally one just fell into my lap. Scroll painstakingly removed as others mentioned on here, but it's the construction I'm interested in. It has the seven circular sweat holes on the star points, but the central one behind the slider is a huge square. Is this a known configuration on genuine (scrolled) badges? I've never seen it before. And any more ideas on why the descrolling was done?

grey_green_acorn · #2 17-01-23, 09:24 AM

Previous but inconclusive thread here:
https://www.britishbadgeforum.com/fo...ad.php?t=71680

Tim

James K · #3 20-01-23, 10:17 AM

My maternal grandfather served in the East Surrey Regiment in the 1920's and 30's and then again in the Second World War. Firstly with 2nd Bn in Gibraltar, UK and Jersey before they went to India and then with the Depot and the 1st Bn. His son, my uncle, then served with the East Surrey's in the UK and Cyprus before it became the Queens Royal Surrey Regiment in the UK, Aden, Hong Kong and Germany. As a result of this family connection I've researched the regiment fairly extensively.

There are two possible reasons for the de scrolling, either or both of which might apply.

Firstly one of the pre 1939 Territorial battalions, the 5th, was converted to 57th East Surrey Anti Tank Regiment RA, keeping the name and for a time the East Surrey Cap badge. It could be that the scroll was removed from the badge to differentiate themselves from the infantry battalions. The ES cap badge was still being worn when it supported the 1st and 1/6th Bn's at the Escaut in 1940.

There was also a small number of Home Service Bn's one of which which quickly became a Boy Soldiers unit the 70th I believe. It could also be the case that the cut down cap badge was issued to the boy soldiers.

Alan O · #4 20-01-23, 02:33 PM

Option 3 is that it was changed to wear on the FSC/side cap. Without photos its impossible to know.

James K · #5 20-01-23, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan O

Option 3 is that it was changed to wear on the FSC/side cap. Without photos its impossible to know.

I once had my grandfathers side cap, two actually one khaki and the other full regimental colour, and the cap badges had the scroll

Alan O · #6 20-01-23, 06:21 PM

I was thinking of the late war privately bought coloured FS caps worn for walking out.

James K · #7 20-01-23, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan O

I was thinking of the late war privately bought coloured FS caps worn for walking out.

The same as the bands had. Yes my grandfather had one as he was a drummer

mojob123 · #8 20-01-23, 09:41 PM

How about on a slouch hat? https://www.bulldogmilitaria.co.uk/e...8#.Y8sHhHbP3ct

James K · #9 20-01-23, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mojob123

How about on a slouch hat? https://www.bulldogmilitaria.co.uk/e...8#.Y8sHhHbP3ct

Did they have them? 2nd East Surreys were lost in the retreat to Singapore and the remnants lost when it fell.

mojob123 · #10 22-01-23, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by James K

Did they have them? 2nd East Surreys were lost in the retreat to Singapore and the remnants lost when it fell.

I don't know, I'm sorry. I just happened to come across the listing when looking for examples of the descrolled badge. I would have to say, on a 2nd look, the badge looks like it could be a 1916 economy, so unlikely to be paired with a WW2 slouch hat. But it look like you can see where the scroll has been removed from the 3 lower star points. I will reserve judgement! Mike

mojob123 · #11 22-01-23, 08:20 PM

Thanks for replies guys. I'll assume the big square sweat hole is a known genuine one and keep my eyes open for any further possible uses of the descrolled badge - or even better, a period photograph of one being worn! Mike