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  #16  
Old 07-11-18, 07:55 AM
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Frank Kelley Frank Kelley is offline
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Perhaps you can tell us how you have reached that conclusion?

Quote:
Originally Posted by silverwash View Post
crossed wires, the items I am referring to are the medal box and condolence slip.

Last edited by Frank Kelley; 07-11-18 at 10:35 AM.
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  #17  
Old 07-11-18, 09:49 AM
arnhem2280 arnhem2280 is offline
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Default Major R S Croot

Firstly if the box and condolence slip are original then that's great for the buyer. As Major root was killed in an accident in December 1944 then he would never have received his British medals as they were not manufactured/issued until the end of the war. They would have been sent to his next of kin. You do see photos of servicemen wearing the ribbon of the Africa Star during the war but they did not receive the medal until post WW2.

All Major Croot's medals including the TD and Dutch award would be unnamed and could only have been mounted post war by someone other than him.

My understanding is that there was either an incomplete or missing name and address on the box. As to the condolence slip they are a complete nightmare. There is a whole thread dedicated to them on the Medal Forum. They were being faked in large numbers during the 70's and 80's just after a large number of unnamed medal boxes came onto the market and very quickly disappeared only for them to start turning up named to servicemen who had been killed in high profile actions.

Many of these were sold to unsuspecting collectors who eventually realised that they had been scammed and in all probability they have returned to the market.

What collectors have to bear in mind is that the vast majority of servicemen and woman only received a small brown box with unnamed medals in it, unless that is they served either before the war or post war and received a named medal or they were an other rank and received a named gallantry award. (officers gallantry medals are with the exception of the VC unnamed) .

If the purchaser of the box and slip is willing to post images on the forum I would be very interested to see them ( and may end up kicking myself for not bidding!)

Cheers

Arnhem
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  #18  
Old 07-11-18, 10:00 AM
Medals1985 Medals1985 is offline
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I'm unable to post pictures at the moment as I'm in work, but as I mentioned in my previous reply I am well aware of the fakes that came onto the market, I assure you this is not one of them, the paper, printing and box are all as they should be, there is obvious signed of water damage from bad storage, another sign of what little regard people placed on paper item where as the medals would be treasured, I'll try and post pictures tonight regards Ben
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  #19  
Old 07-11-18, 02:03 PM
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Question TD?

If you mean Territorial Decorations by TD then I am sure they were named.

Rob
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  #20  
Old 07-11-18, 03:12 PM
arnhem2280 arnhem2280 is offline
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Default Major R S Croot

The TD wasn't named unless it was done privately. The Efficiency Medal which was for other ranks was named around the edge though.

The TD was however dated on the rear.

Cheers

Arnhem
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  #21  
Old 07-11-18, 05:56 PM
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Photos of condolence slip and box, also 2 medal packets inside box, there is some very faint writing on the box I have a friend who's a lecturer at a university who has access to digital enhancement so hopefully that will work.
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File Type: jpg 20181107_174822.jpg (71.5 KB, 39 views)
File Type: jpg 20181107_174858.jpg (69.4 KB, 39 views)
File Type: jpg 20181107_174919.jpg (60.9 KB, 28 views)
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  #22  
Old 08-11-18, 12:17 AM
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watch this
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  #23  
Old 08-11-18, 02:52 PM
arnhem2280 arnhem2280 is offline
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Default Major R S Croot

Is it possible to post an image of the rear of the condolence slip ?

Cheers

Arnhem
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  #24  
Old 08-11-18, 05:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silverwash View Post
watch this
although this forum is a " badge " forum and the topic has veered off the subject onto " medals ", for the benefit of members who also have an interest in awards, may it please the court I proffer evidence to illustrate the differences between an original WW2 Army slip and a bogus example which is now the question of debate.

disparities are :

paper quality, dimensions, differences in text type, text spacing and positioning, date type, fold of paper. original slips had a single uniform layout, be it Army, Admiralty or Air Council issue.

enclosed are images of the front and rear of an original WW2 Army slip. the measurements for this are 4.0 ins. x 5.6 ins or 102mm x 142 mm. please make use of the Mk.1 eyeball

PS I do not believe the issuing office would have made reference to a Territorial Decoration TD ?
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File Type: jpg nairn001.jpg (83.1 KB, 25 views)
File Type: jpg nairn002.jpg (102.7 KB, 25 views)
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Last edited by silverwash; 08-11-18 at 05:54 PM. Reason: punctuation
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  #25  
Old 08-11-18, 07:00 PM
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I'm not sure how you can judge paper quality without actually seeing it, it's exactly the same quality as all of my other condolence slips the measurements are correct and as for the use of post nominal letters I think you will find that they were indeed used on the condolence slip, I'm sorry that we have moved off into a different subject matter for you but when you call something fake or dud it will cause a few questions!
P.S. the medal record office on the back of the box would be correct as Major Croot came from Barnstable.
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  #26  
Old 08-11-18, 07:06 PM
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Recipients of the territorial decoration may use the post nominal letters T.D. after their name
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  #27  
Old 08-11-18, 08:27 PM
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this is the other side of your slip next to an original. amongst the various anomalies, cast your eyes down to 10 War Medal 1939-45. the Description of Ribbon, original example has four lines of text, fake one has three lines.

https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-hi...n-from-my-eyes

lucky for you that Barnstaple is near Exeter !

I can help you no further.
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  #28  
Old 08-11-18, 10:44 PM
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A number of items relating to Major Croot surfaced a few years back at the Stratford on Avon show. There were photos, several medals including the Dutch one and a number of other items of insignia
Lee
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  #29  
Old 09-11-18, 12:35 PM
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at the risk of boring people, a further two examples of bogus memorabilia associated with WW2 Parachute Regiment and Glider Pilot Regiment casualty medal awards. no doubt there are other variations on the theme.
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File Type: jpg hardwick hall.jpg (107.2 KB, 19 views)
File Type: jpg bogus slip.jpg (56.9 KB, 19 views)
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  #30  
Old 09-11-18, 01:26 PM
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What a fascinating thread! I for one am gripped.
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