Help ID Regiment from Collar Dogs

[Shiny]

Hi All,

I'm trying to identify the man in this picture.

I have been told a relative was in the Royal Munster Fusiliers during WW1, could this be him?

Thanks a lot,

Michael

[Hoot]

He's either RA or RE.

[Shiny]

Hi Hoot,

Now that throws the cat among the pigeons!

This photo was also with this one, they were both labelled as Patrick Daly however that is the name of both father and son.

The father was in the Royal Munster Fusiliers during WW1 and died in 1934, the son was in the Royal Engineers in WW2 but wasn't born until 1922 so I had presumed although they look very alike it had to be two different men in two different wars.

Does that help or muddy things up?

Michael

[Hoot]

Originally Posted by Shiny

Hi Hoot,

Now that throws the cat among the pigeons!

This photo was also with this one, they were both labelled as Patrick Daly however that is the name of both father and son.

The father was in the Royal Munster Fusiliers during WW1 and died in 1934, the son was in the Royal Engineers in WW2 but wasn't born until 1922 so I had presumed although they look very alike it had to be two different men in two different wars.

Does that help or muddy things up?

Michael

Michael, I think both photos are the same man. Those collar badges are much later than WW1. I think the first photo dates to around 1939-40.

[Shiny]

Thanks very much for the help, so is that not a WW1 tunic in the first photo or is it just that they were still wearing them at the start of WW2?

Michael

[gb64]

Originally Posted by Shiny

Thanks very much for the help, so is that not a WW1 tunic in the first photo or is it just that they were still wearing them at the start of WW2?

Michael

Hi Michael, if I remember right the Battle Dress wasn’t worn until late 1930’s so the service dress was still being worn, I’m not sure with out checking but the service dress (as worn WW1) had the reinforced patches above the breast pocket but not sure if that design continued after WW1 ? I’ll have a check later but someone might know in the meantime.

Gerard

[Shiny]

Thanks Gerard,

I really thought that jacket made it WW1, I'm so pleased I checked.

Thanks for the help,

Michael

[mike_vee]

Here's another cat among the pigeons (foxhole dug and awaiting barrage !)

If it is the father and he was in the Royal Munster Fusiliers during WW1 then he may have been one of the ‘Dubsters’.

"After landing at Cape Helles on 25 April, it suffered such heavy casualties in the subsequent fighting that it had to be merged with 1st Battalion, The Royal Dublin Fusiliers, to form a composite unit known as the ‘Dubsters’ ".

And later had the photo taken wearing RDF cap badges as collars in recognition of his time 'with' them ?

INCOMING !!!!


.

[Shiny]

Blimey Mike,

That does add another dimension.

All I have is the son's memoires saying dad was in the Royal Munster Fusiliers during WW1 and that he was gassed, wounded and captured.

So far all my research has turned up is that there was a lot of Patrick Daly's in the RMF so I can't pin down which is him. It also means I can't confirm the battalion to see if it matches that theory.

I haven't been able to find an SWB record or pension card for him to confirm the wounding and I haven't been able to find a red cross record confirming the POW, however I knew the son as an old man, he was sharp as a tack, so have no reason to doubt what he has written.

Do you have dates for this happening or was it a google search?

Michael

Edit: I've just reread your post, am I right in thinking you are guessing he may have had his photo taken with their badges rather than it being a known fact that some did?

[grey_green_acorn]

Here is a pair of Royal Engineers brass/gilding metal collar badges for comparison.

Tim

[Shiny]

Thanks a lot Tim, I think we have a winner.

I have put the photo on my computer and when they are side by side it does look like these RE ones as suggested by Hoot right at the start.

So that must mean this is the son taken early on in the war before battle dress came in?

Thanks everyone.

Michael

[cbuehler]

Originally Posted by Shiny

Thanks a lot Tim, I think we have a winner.

I have put the photo on my computer and when they are side by side it does look like these RE ones as suggested by Hoot right at the start.

So that must mean this is the son taken early on in the war before battle dress came in?

Thanks everyone.

Michael

Yes, that would be 1930s or very early 1940s. Collar badges were not generally worn before 1922, with some cavalry exceptions.
The other tell tale sign that makes dating easy is that collar badges were worn at an angle to the collar points between the wars on OR service dress.

CB

[mike_vee]

Originally Posted by Shiny

Edit: I've just reread your post, am I right in thinking you are guessing he may have had his photo taken with their badges rather than it being a known fact that some did?

Of course I was guessing and looking at later posts was way off the mark !

That's why the RA had me do radar and signals rather than aim/fire the guns !


.

[grey_green_acorn]

Michael,
Another possibility is that he was a pre-war Territorial. Here is a picture of my Dad (born 1921) who joined the TA in an Anti-Tank Regiment in May 1939. He is in Service Dress and wearing RA collar badges in a photo taken after May 1940.

Tim

[Shiny]

Thanks a lot for the help everyone, clearly I have a lot more research to do yet.

I see what you mean Tim and that adds to what CB was saying about the angle of the badges.

It was still worth a shot Mike, I could make some comment about it dropping short but that would be unfair 🤭

Michael