1st Airborne Div Signals Bullion Beret badge 1943 - Page 2 - British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum

fougasse1940 · #16 22-09-11, 02:13 PM

Further food for thought.
I don't know what it looks like, but could the globe and laurel-less unofficial bullion badge be based on the pre-1947 Signals Crest?

This thread was moved, but why not to the Artillery, Engineers and Signals sub-section?

Rgds,
Thomas.

Chris Walker · #17 22-09-11, 02:59 PM

Dear Thomas

Your last post is not a million miles away from the truth.

There is a theory that the 1946/7 design of cap badge came about partly due to an instrument mechanic of the original 1940 SS Brigade Sig Sqn who it is said took the Circlet off of his original Signals badge and altered the fixings to make it fit his Green Commando beret.

It is said that the OC of the Squadron approved this change and Signals Commandos of the time wore this form of badge through the rest of the war.

In my little web site I do make mention of this fact under the Bullion badge of the Commando Signals.

Now. With the start up of Airborne Troops in 1941 when personnel from different Corps and Regiment volunteered for service with the 1st and 6th Airborne Divisions. Could officers have taken the design from the Commando Signal Squadron to use this design for themselves?.

The only hard and fast date I have so far with photos is March 1943 but this could have happened sooner!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Interesting thought. Don't know the actual answer.

Regards

Chris Walker
www,signalsbadges.co.uk

I am going to invest a small amount of money and ask the archivist at the Royal Corps of Signals Museum to take a coloured photo of the badge that appears in Maj Harfields book. May take some time though.

fougasse1940 · #18 22-09-11, 05:57 PM

If you take off the circlet you lose the laurels but still end up with the globe. It also doesn't explain the use of "Certa Cito" on a badge pre-1947.
It might explain the "floating" crown though.

Anyone knows what the pre 1947 Signals Crest looks like?

I hope you're allowed and willing to share the colour image.

Rgds,
Thomas.

Mike B · #19 24-09-11, 09:38 AM

Chris - Special Service Brigade Signals CO was Major (later Lt Col) A J Leahy. Regards Mike

Chris Walker · #20 01-10-11, 12:55 PM

Dear Thomas

I do not know if I am actually allowed to show the attached photograph or not but at I have pair good money for the privelege here is a copy of the photo that the Royal Signals Museum sent me.

I hope it is clear enough to be seen. Definate maroon backing with no globe and a Kings Crown

Best wishes

Chris Walker
www.signalsbadges.co.uk

fougasse1940 · #21 02-10-11, 02:11 PM

Thanks for showing Chris, is the image intentionally smaller than the average Avatar?

Rgds,
Thomas.

Chris Walker · #22 02-10-11, 02:30 PM

Dear Thomas

I think the image is small as I am not sure why it has come out this small as the attachment.

The photo from the Museum which came by email is fairly large and easy to see.

Cheers

Chris

Chris Walker · #23 03-10-11, 12:22 PM

Dear Thomas and all

I hope the enclosed attachement may be of a better quality than the first I presented under this Thread. Certainly a larger version. Enjoy.

Cheers

Chris Walker
www.signalsbadges.co.uk

silverwash · #24 04-10-11, 10:48 AM

to add to the mix, albeit an RA example. without actually removing the badge, close scrutiny and poking about reveals the fact the grenade does not have a coloured backing.

Chris Walker · #25 08-10-11, 02:29 PM

Dear Silverwash.

Some one with more knowlege than me must make the call on this one. Perhaps Thomas can help.

I have no idea which 1st Airborne Division badges came with a maroon or any coloured backing other than the Signals one that I have posted.

I am 100 percent sure that if a Signals Badge of the same period came with say a black or blue backing even if it were an unofficial style badge it would not be correct. Pretty hard to fake a Jimmy badge without a backing as the badge is too thin.

Nice photo though. Hope someone can help.

Cheers

Chris Walker
www.signalsbadges.co.uk

#26 17-12-11, 05:34 AM

The *private-purchase* Airborne bullion beret badges were, as far as I'm aware, all produced with a maroon coloured backing. I've seen examples to at least half a dozen 1st/6th Airborne units. All were embroidered on maroon and at least one I can think of (AAC) was based, but not a true likeness of, the official metal badge equivalent. These bullion AB badges range from rare to nigh-on impossible to find. Almost forgot to mention that in the case of the bullion AAC, there is photo evidence of one being worn by an NCO whilst receiving an award at Buckingham Palace.

Andy

Chris Walker · #27 17-12-11, 09:52 AM

Dear Andy.

Thanks for the advice regarding Airborne Bullion badges all being produced with a maroon backing. I have not been fortunate enought to see one in the flesh so to speak.

Since I updated my little web site www.signalsbadges.co.uk back in November 2011 I have added a slight caviat to the write up saying "Some badges were worn with a black or blue backing". Now this may seem strange. However, when I obtained the photo from the Royal Signal Museum of the maroon backed badge they also sent me a photograph of a portrait which is attached.

The portrait is of Captain Stuart Leslie Blatch. He was killed in action on 20th September 1944 in Operation Market Garden at Arnhem aged 23. Capt. Blatch is reported to have been the most senior signals officer killed in this action.

As I think can quite clealy be seen the portrait shows not a maroon backing to his beret badge but indeed a dark blue or black backing.

I do not think the unknown artist would have put this colouring in as a whim but as the actual colour that was on the beret.

This was one of the main reasons I amended my write up.

With my best wishes

Chris Walker
www.signalsbadges.co.uk

Phillip Herring · #28 17-12-11, 01:05 PM

There may be a fair bit of artistic licence in this portrait. Look at his medal ribbons and then consider that he was killed in 1944.

Phil

fougasse1940 · #29 17-12-11, 03:17 PM

Black and white photos of the era suggest a bullion Signals badge on a dark blue or black background was also worn.

Rgds,

Thomas.

Chris Walker · #30 18-12-11, 02:22 PM

Dear Thomas.

Have you any good photos of black and white photos that may well assist with the black or dark blue backing for Airborne Signals beret badges.

If there are any on the web could you please advise as to where I might see them. Not being a medal man there is also some confusion of the Capt Stuart Blatch's portrait and its validity owing to the medal ribbons considering he died in 1944. What do you think Thomas????

Best wishes

Chris Walker
www.signalsbadges.co.uk