27th Lancers

[Malcolm Davey]

My 27th Lancers collars that i have in my album have attracted the eye of some members and questions have been asked, so i thought i would post the badges in question for all to see and comment on.

Malc

[2747andy]

Not a lot wrong with those then Malc!!!

Andy

[Malcolm Davey]

Thanks Andy, Keith says that his have 3 lugs and a round sweat hole like in Peter seamans book but that only mentions officers collars and that he has not come across other ranks collars, so these are a puzzle.

Malc

[davec2]

Do you think they would sit well with my 13th/18th Hussars pouch badge ?

I like them but I've already said that but you both know how limited my knowledge is ?

Dave.

[Lancer 17]

G'day Malc

I have but 1 officers collar, however mine has N S lugs 1 behind the crown and the other on the cross bar just below the elephants trunk. There are 2 sweat holes in the bottom half of each pennon and 1 in the centre hehind the elephants head.

Regards

Phil.

[peter seaman]

Good Evening Joachim,

The collars you show are officers collars because of the lugs and also that the lower halves of the lance pennons are white metal. All other ranks insignia of the 27th Lancers lacked the white metal section to the lower lance pennons. During my research period I never came across any OR's pattern collar badges either in other collections, amongst personal belongings of former members of the regiment or with family members. However, I have a copy of a photograph which shows a 27th Lancer sergeant wearing collars, sadly the photograph is too small to say if they are officers pattern with the lower portions of the lance pennons in white metal or not.

I continue to research the regiment and to date I have no evidence, either photographic or anecdotal, of OR's pattern collars.

All good wishes,

Peter

[Malcolm Davey]

Peter thankyou very much for confirming the collars are officers and that they wore bi metal as well as i persume sillver and gilt collars.
All the best
Malc

[peter seaman]

Good Morning Griff,

I have in my collection several sets of 27th lancers officers collar badges, some are silver and gilt and others are gilding metal and white metal. Odd ones of the latter appear to have had silver and gilt 'washes' added to them which has been polished off with time. Collars also exist in bronze for Service Dress.

The 27th Lancers other ranks head dress badge was worn on the black beret with a red felt/material pentagon shaped backing, point uppper most.

To Phil, Lancer 17,

I have a pair of 27th Lancers officers collars exactly as you describe
which, as above, now show very little sign of their previous gilt 'wash'. Mine came to me from the late Sir Basil Hall, MC, who served as a squadron commander with the regiment. To date I have not identified the maker.

All good wishes,

Peter

[Keith Blakeman]

Another small request for info from Peter. I have a pair of collars which instead of having sweatholes have very shallow rivets. Would these be the silver & gilt versions?

[peter seaman]

Good Afternoon Keith,

The collars you describe are the silver and gilt pattern. My slightly miss-matched pair of this pattern now lack most of the gilt wash.

All good wishes,

Peter

[orasot]

I'd be interested to hear what you think of this one Peter, it tests for silver on paper ok, some bits of gilt left on the front & more on the back, long loops on the back too plus 2 small strengthening wires, thanks,
Wilf.

[Old Smelly]

Was the officers badge on lugs e/w or n/s or both, also was it ever produced in bullion? I have an officers beret that has had the badge 'dissappeared' at some time.
Wilf, your badge looks good to me
Lee

[Keith Blakeman]

Originally Posted by orasot

I'd be interested to hear what you think of this one Peter, it tests for silver on paper ok, some bits of gilt left on the front & more on the back, long loops on the back too plus 2 small strengthening wires, thanks,
Wilf.

I'm not convinced by this badge Wilf, I have one myself (although mine has a fixing shank, yours looks like it had one at one time) and have never been happy with it either, despite the slotted sweathole and strengthening rods. Peter has always said that OR's didn't have bi-metal pennons. A few things to back up my theory.

1. A seller in Islington market had this badge for sale, also amongst his wares was a Middlesex 'footballers' and all sorts of other rubbish, nothing I can remember on his stall appeared genuine but all rarish badges at prices cheaper than they ought to have been.

2. The Firmin pattern with all g/m pennons are die stamped all be it with a heavy rear definition. These ones are completely smooth backed.

3. The metal itself. Genuine badges clean up with little effort, this badge doesn't one of the reasons I do clean most of mine. The dirty metal never looks right on this one.

Your badge looks familiar and I was offered it or an identical one myself a good few years ago from a forum member.

[orasot]

Cheers Keith, the funny thing about this one is that it all appears to be made of silver !
Wilf.

[Keith Blakeman]

Originally Posted by orasot

Cheers Keith, the funny thing about this one is that it all appears to be made of silver !
Wilf.

Interesting. I saw you'd noted silver but thought it only applied to the pennons and elephant.

Here's my bi-metal one although you can't see the sweathole and wires. They do look similar.