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  #1  
Old 17-06-22, 11:49 PM
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Default The 23rd London ‘Economy’ ?

Hopefully this thread doesn’t come across as sheer pedantry on my part.

Since forever I’ve always seen the 23rd London badges struck in all GM referred to as WW1 ‘economy’ issues. This is something I’d accepted without question.

However, whilst trawling through the 1916 tenders lists Julian has kindly sent me I noted something strange.

The sealed pattern number for this badge is 622/1915.

Every single other 1916 all GM issue on the tender has a /1916 suffix. Also of the 41 cavalry, infantry and TF infantry only the 23rd London and one other lacks an alphabetical character within the pattern number.

The ACI relating to authorisation of all GM issues is dated March 1916, so if the GM 23rd London was sealed in 1915 as it appears then technically it should not be thought of as an economy issue.
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  #2  
Old 18-06-22, 06:25 AM
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Luke

This may be a typo because in 1915 TF badges were not provided by the ACD and therefore not sealed until 1916?

Either that or the 23rds were special enough to be provided with cap badges before the rest of the TF but not special enough to get a bi-metal one like the East Surrey regiment whose their badge was based on. Seems unlikely.

Could it be a transcription error?

Alan
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  #3  
Old 18-06-22, 08:42 AM
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I don’t think it’s a date typo or transcription error Alan.

The below TF infantry badges are on the tender as being all GM. As these have been listed previously in other threads I don’t believe I’m giving anything away that will affect Julian’s article. However I won’t list the full pattern numbers as that would.

4th Dorsetshire Regt ***A/1916 (3,000)
4th-8th Essex Regt ***A/1916 (8,000)
4th/5th East Lancs Regt ***A/1916 (6,000)
4th South Lancashire Regt ***A/1916 (4,000)
4th/5th/6th Leics Regt ***A/1916 (6,000)
7th-10th Middlesex Regt ***A/1916 (15,000)
4th Northants Regt ***A/1916 (3,000)
4th/5th/6th Suffolk Regt ***/1916 (9,000)
Cambridgeshire Regt ***A/1916 (4,000)

All include an ‘A’, except the Suffolks which is the other anomaly I mentioned.

The London Regiment badges however from 5th-28th Battalions all have 1915 dated sealed patterns with prefix numbers around the low 600s, none have any alphabetical characters. Exception being 22nd and 24th London who share The Queen’s RWS 4681A/1916 all GM issue sealed pattern.

We know several Yeomanry and Cavalry regiments altered their badge designs in 1915 so I’m wondering if for whatever reason the 23rd decided to switch to all GM.
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  #4  
Old 18-06-22, 08:45 AM
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Nothing wrong with a bit of pedantry Luke.

I don't think that is a particularly rare badge. I am after one but I have not come across on yet.

Chris
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  #5  
Old 18-06-22, 09:08 AM
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Luke

That's interesting that all the London Regiments were sealed in 1915. It would seem that the 23rd's change to all GM was not for economy reasons like you say.

Alan
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  #6  
Old 18-06-22, 12:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CAM View Post
Nothing wrong with a bit of pedantry Luke.

I don't think that is a particularly rare badge. I am after one but I have not come across on yet.

Chris
According to the tenders 5,000 were ordered in April 1916 alone which is why they’re not particularly rare, albeit, after one hundred years and all the other potential factors they are understandably not common either.

You will find one, my advice is don’t spend more than about £45.

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Luke

That's interesting that all the London Regiments were sealed in 1915. It would seem that the 23rd's change to all GM was not for economy reasons like you say.

Alan
I agree it is a potentially interesting development Alan. That said I’ve no plans to move my example from my 1916 all GM tin.
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  #7  
Old 18-06-22, 01:06 PM
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Thanks Luke
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Old 18-06-22, 01:52 PM
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Like all these things they have to start somewhere and only making what would normally be classed as half a badge and simplifying is an economy on parts and labour.
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  #9  
Old 18-06-22, 01:56 PM
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Like all these things they have to start somewhere and only making what would normally be classed as half a badge and simplifying is an economy on parts and labour.
But if that’s the case here Andy it’s unofficial and the decision of the specific TF association in 1915 which was markedly different to all the others who were carrying on as normal at that time.
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  #10  
Old 19-06-22, 08:29 AM
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You will have go to TNA in Kew and look up through the ledgers; WO/359 'Records of Changes'
I think you need to go through volumes 14 - 17.
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