East Lancashire, QVC, blank plinth

[Tinto]

Hello Forum members,
Comments welcome on this white metal badge.
Who wore it, and when?
Thanks, John

[Luke H]

These are always sold as Volunteer Battalion badges. The East Lancashire Militia Bttn wore the reversed metal badge so can be ruled out in all likelihood.

Interestingly the Egypt tablet is not erased on the Militia badge.

When worn, QVC period 1897-1901.

After 1902 I know the 2nd V.B. at least had their own bespoke badge.

[Tinto]

Originally Posted by Luke H

These are always sold as Volunteer Battalion badges. The East Lancashire Militia Bttn wore the reversed metal badge so can be ruled out in all likelihood.

Interestingly the Egypt tablet is not erased on the Militia badge.

When worn, QVC period 1897-1901.

After 1902 I know the 2nd V.B. at least had their own bespoke badge.

Thank you, Luke, much appreciated.
John

[Alan O]

The 2VB badge dates from 1905-08 because it took until 1905 for the SA Honour to be awarded.

Alan

[Luke H]

Yes indeed, but I’ve seen them without hence my 1902 comment.

[Alan O]

Indeed as those without the scroll would be between c.1898-1904. This assumes the VB adopted the cap badge around the same time as the Regulars. It's possible it was later and no badge or the collar badge was worn.

[Luke H]

The badge without the honours I was referring to was a bespoke KC 2nd V.B. East Lancs so must date 1902-04, provided it just hadn’t had its scroll broken off!

I do not recall ever seeing a bespoke 1st V.B. East Lancs so it may well be they wore a collar or nothing at all in headdress as you say.

Always found it very curious that the reversed metal QVC Militia badges are so plentiful and encountered far more regularly than the purported QVC generic V.B.

I’d be interested to hear if anyone has a bespoke QVC 1st or 2nd V.B. badge or a KC 1st V.B?

[Keith Blakeman]

Originally Posted by Luke H

The badge without the honours I was referring to was a bespoke KC 2nd V.B. East Lancs so must date 1902-04, provided it just hadn’t had its scroll broken off!

I do not recall ever seeing a bespoke 1st V.B. East Lancs so it may well be they wore a collar or nothing at all in headdress as you say.

Always found it very curious that the reversed metal QVC Militia badges are so plentiful and encountered far more regularly than the purported QVC generic V.B.

I’d be interested to hear if anyone has a bespoke QVC 1st or 2nd V.B. badge or a KC 1st V.B?

Logically a blank scroll without an SA honour ought to be a 1st VB badge and not 4th/5th TA (Geoff Newman 25038) as the honour pre-dates it. But.....it has a brass rose. 2nd VB badges are seen without (Geoff again 24759) & with the honour (Minden 50477).

I've just noticed the 3rd Militia Btn was awarded the SA honour too.

[Alan O]

Keith

A good point and it could well be both 1 VB and 4/5 TF.

Alan

[Alan O]

Originally Posted by Luke H

The badge without the honours I was referring to was a bespoke KC 2nd V.B. East Lancs so must date 1902-04, provided it just hadn’t had its scroll broken off!

I do not recall ever seeing a bespoke 1st V.B. East Lancs so it may well be they wore a collar or nothing at all in headdress as you say.

Always found it very curious that the reversed metal QVC Militia badges are so plentiful and encountered far more regularly than the purported QVC generic V.B.

I’d be interested to hear if anyone has a bespoke QVC 1st or 2nd V.B. badge or a KC 1st V.B?

Luke

If there is no SA scroll why could it not pre-date 1902?

It was not unusual for 1VB not to have a title but just be in different metals while the subsequent battalions needed a title to differentiate themselves.

[Luke H]

Originally Posted by Luke H

The badge without the honours I was referring to was a bespoke KC 2nd V.B. East Lancs so must date 1902-04, provided it just hadn’t had its scroll broken off!

Originally Posted by Alan O

Luke

If there is no SA scroll why could it not pre-date 1902?

It was not unusual for 1VB not to have a title but just be in different metals while the subsequent battalions needed a title to differentiate themselves.

To be clear I’m talking about this badge.

[Alan O]

Yes - why cannot that pre date 1902?

[Luke H]

If we’re being pedantic it may be 1901 by a couple of months*. However, I doubt they were issued or widely worn until 1902 at the earliest.

Majority of KC infantry badges were not sealed until late 1901 or even much later (1902, 1903 etc.).

Being Volunteers and privately financed no doubt the generic blank tablet WM QVC was worn whilst existing stocks lasted. And we see far more of the KC 2nd V.B. badges with the SA honours scroll than without tends to lend support to a later seal date in my opinion.

Edit: 6 weeks*. Regular East Lancs change to KC on 12/11/1901, Sealed Pattern no. 4557A/1901.

[KLR]

I have just created an album called 'crown' - 1902
I'll find the reference in TNA a mo...or so)

[manchesters]

Julian,

I am afraid I find it impossible to read, any chance of a transcript?

regards