Help To Identify Indian/Pakistan Units

[Cleeman]

I have the following badges that I am struggling to identify. Can anyone please assist in confirming what units and country they may be from. I personally think they are from India and Pakistan.

These badges will be for sale with approximately 30-40 other British Indian Army badges. As I have no idea on the value of these badges I will be putting them on eBay, unless anyone here has an interest in them.

Many thanks,

Andy

[peter monahan]

12 Cavalry (Frontier Force)(Sam Browne's Cavalry) is the successor to 2nd and 5th Regiments of Punjab Cavalry, both raised in 1849.
15th Lancers (Baloch Horse) is successor to the Muttra Horse and 7th Bombay Cavalry, raised in 1857 and 1885 respectively.

I suspect that the 'GRB', if that's what it says is one of the irregular units - police or militia - which Pakistan has raised in NWF province and other border areas, since 1947. I suspect it is one of the newer ones.

[Cleeman]

Hi,
Thanks for the info. I was unsure on the 12th as it differs to others I have viewed on the net. I have been unable to view another example of the 15th, so was unsure of that.

The badge with the Tiger(?) on the top came on a card that stated "Greyhounds". I visited a Police Special Forces unit in India years ago known as the "Greyhounds" but do not remember their unit badge. I don't believe it was this one.

Andy

[cbuehler]

These are of course modern badges. Pre 1948 badges are what collectors want, whereas the post '48 badges generally have little interest or value.

CB

[slick_mick]

Originally Posted by cbuehler

These are of course modern badges. Pre 1948 badges are what collectors want, whereas the post '48 badges generally have little interest or value.

CB

I collect post 1948 Indian and Pakistan badges.

Mick

[cbuehler]

Mick, no offense intended! Perhaps I was a bit harsh, but as a British Indian Army collector of forty years, I must stand by my statement in essence at least.
All the best,
CB

[Khyber]

I collect only pre-47 IA badges and medals.
Post 47 the quality of Indian army badges and medals has diminished considerably. Even till the 60s and 70s the quality was ok. But now it's farmed out to local contactors and the quality is terrible and in terms of collector value these badges are almost worthless in India.

[Wmr-RHB]

Sorry to say, but I differ here and there in opinion.

The badge with the 12 on it is from the Indian 12th Armoured Regiment and not from the Pakistan 12th Cavalry (Frontier Force) (the Sam Browne sub-title was already dropped in 1940 I assume).

The badge with the 15 on it is from the Indian 15th Armoured Regiment and not from the Pakistan 15th Lancers (Baloch Horse).


When all four badges belong together, I assume the other two are also Indian.

[Wmr-RHB]

BTW, the Greyhounds are descripted in Wikipedia (of course): Greyhounds (Police), but The abbreviation as mentioned there (GHS) is not readable by me on the badge. Also I am not sure if Greyhounds is there official designation, but there is no other one in the article.
I read it as GDP, which could make it ... Police Department, but that is pure guessing.

[Wmr-RHB]

And to compare the Indian and Pakistan lists:
The Regiments of the Indian Armoured Corps
The Regiments of the Pakistan Armoured Corps

BTW the 12 and 15th Indian Armoured Regiments (both raised the 1980's do not claim perpetuation from the regiments with the same numbers in the British Indian Army.

[Cleeman]

Thanks for the information everyone. The first badge appears to have a Tiger not a Greyhound on the top. Could it be a Bengal region Police/quasi-military organisation?

I will post later a list of the British Indian Army badges I have, which will be for sale.

Andy

[Cleeman]

Badges for sale.

1) 18th King Edward's Own Cavalry c.1921-1947
2) 13th Duke Of Connaught's Own Lancers c.1923-1947
3) 16th Light Cavalry c.1922-1947
4) 7th Light Cavalry c.1935-1947
5) 8th Cavalry Pre-1921
6) Skinner's Horse (1st Duke Of York's Own Cavalry) c.1922-1950
7) 2nd Lancers (Gardner's Horse) c.1922-1947
8) 3rd Battalion, 15th Punjab Regiment c.1922-1947

All of the above now listed on eBay.

All of the following also for sale.

9) Ajmer Regiment c.1941-1945
10) Queen Victoria's Own Corps Of Guides (Frontier Force), (Lumsdens) Cavalry c.1906-1947
11) 6th Duke Of Connaught's Own Lancers (Watson's Horse) c.1922-1947
12) 12th Frontier Force Regiment c.1922-1945
13) 8th Punjab Regiment c.1922-1947
14) 59th Scinde Rifles (Frontier Force) c.1904-1922 SOLD
15) 5th Mahratta Light Infantry c.1922-1947
16) Probyn's Horse (5th King Edward VII's Own Lancers) c.1922-1947 x 2
17) 2nd Battalion, 15th Punjab Regiment collar c.1922-1947
18) 2nd Queen Victoria's Own Rajput Light Infantry c. Pre-1922
19) 3rd Battalion, 11th Sikh Regiment (45th Rattray's Sikh's) c.1922-1947 SOLD
20) 83rd Wallajahbad Light Infantry Pagri badge/brooch pin c.1903-1922 x 2
21) 6th Rajputana Rifles lugged c.1922-1947
22) 6th Rajputana Rifles (1st Battalion) Imperial Crown - c.1922-1945
23) Governor General's Bodyguard c.Pre-1947
24) 15th Ludhiana Sikh's c.1903-1922 SOLD
25) 125th Napier's Rifles Pagri badge/brooch pin c.1903-1922 SOLD
26) 4th Duke Of Cambridge's Own Lancers (Hodson's Horse) c.1922-1947
27) Indian Corps Of Military Police c.1914-1947
28) 45th Cavalry c.1941-1946
29) Jodphur Lancers c.Pre-1952
30) 15th Punjab Regiment c.1922-1947
31) 4th Bombay Grenadiers c.1922-1947

Post Independence

32) 48th Regiment, Indian Armoured Corps c.Post 1982
33) Pakistan 24th Cavalry c.Post 1956
Plus the badges mentioned in Post 1.

Please contact me if anyone is interested in any of the badges for sale, before they all end up on eBay.

Thanks,
Andy

[peter monahan]

Originally Posted by Wmr-RHB

And to compare the Indian and Pakistan lists:
The Regiments of the Indian Armoured Corps
The Regiments of the Pakistan Armoured Corps

BTW the 12 and 15th Indian Armoured Regiments (both raised the 1980's do not claim perpetuation from the regiments with the same numbers in the British Indian Army.

Well played, sir, and my fault foir not checking both lists.

I had completely missed the fact that the Indians have 'filled in' the list of numbered armour units. For several decades after Partition this was not the case.

[Wmr-RHB]

Originally Posted by peter monahan

I had completely missed the fact that the Indians have 'filled in' the list of numbered armour units. For several decades after Partition this was not the case.

Exactly. They first avoided to re-use the numbers that were gone to the other on partition.
But that is no longer the case.

BTW the 12th, 15th and 20th were a bit different. In 1937 they turned into training regiments. In 1940 12th and 15th merged and became a Regimental Center of the Indian Armoured Corps. This was disbanded in 1941. I am not quite sure what happened to the 20th, but on partition all three numbers were vacant.

In 1956 both created a 20th Lancers (both having a badge with crossed lances, XX and scroll LANCERS, the Indian one also sporting the Ashoka lions). It is possible that both claim the lineage.

Pakistan re-raised the 12th and 15th in 1955.

India filled gaps with it's 12th and 15th in 1984 and 1985 together with many other Armoured Regiments filling gaps, but having no relation.

[Cleeman]

Images of a number of badges, members have expressed an interest in. Don't know why the images are uploading sideways. They are the correct orientation in my picture gallery.