Members Albums

[2747andy]

Nice to see Davec2's Albums, a good source for new collectors to view genuine items. With regard to the Other Ranks Infantry Album and Dave's request for viewers coments, having browsed it a few times now, there a few badges that look a bit boarderline to me (IMO):

East Lancs lugged Econ Issue - strange colour, looks almost bronze and not sure if it should have lugs?

Lugged KRRC - Always difficult to tell with photos of blackened badges, but when compared to his slidered version further on, I know which one I would buy first!

Queen's Surrey Econ Issue - The version with the "Golf Ball" looking fleece, not sure how this one got through the many Foot and Mouth Epidemics, it must have cured up to disquise itself as a heap of dirty golf balls to escape the cull, when the men from the Ministry turned up in their wellies!! Seriously - I don't like this one when compared to your other Queen's badges.

http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/for...mid=245&page=5

All views above IMO only!! There are some really nice items in this and Dave's other albums, thanks for sharing them on the Forum!

Andy

[Malcolm Davey]

Queen's Surrey Econ Issue - The version with the "Golf Ball" looking fleece, not sure how this one got through the many Foot and Mouth Epidemics, it must have cured up to disquise itself as a heap of dirty golf balls to escape the cull, when the men from the Ministry turned up in their wellies!! Seriously - I don't like this one when compared to your other Queen's badges.

http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/for...mid=245&page=5

All views above IMO only!! There are some really nice items in this and Dave's other albums, thanks for sharing them on the Forum!

Andy[/QUOTE]

With regard to this so called economy with the "golf ball looking fleece"have you noticed that the pascal lamb is leaner and that it looks like the badge was blackened at one point and not an ecomomy so i would not bin it yet Dave do a bit of research mate and check out the other Queen's battalion's find out what their badges were like.
As with Andy this is my opinion only

Malc

[2747andy]

Malc,
I agree with not getting rid of badges until either, a better one comes along or you have proven to yourself that it is "Hooky". Better to have an example in a gap than a gap, as long as it has not cost too much!

All the best - Dave - Keep the albums coming!

Andy

[Luke H]

Originally Posted by 2747andy

East Lancs lugged Econ Issue - strange colour, looks almost bronze and not sure if it should have lugs?

Andy

No it shouldn't have lugs and especially not footed ones.

Luke

[davec2]

Hello Andy and Malc,

Thanks very much for getting involved.................................I did ask !!

So far I have had conversations with three people, two by telephone and one via e-mail, funnily enough, between these three people, all forum members and all who I would trust nigh on, implicitly ( is that the right expression ? I take their advice seriously ), only a few badges were met with the same opinion and two of them I was aware of, the brass E.Lancs and the AMMO DERR., they are history.

Others to be highlighted by one or more were as follows, both KRRC badges, the Green Howards, the Victorian Lancs Fusiliers, the slidered version of my Lincolnshire, the N. Staffs and of course, the brass Queen's, also mentioned, were a couple of 50-50's as in the Beds & Herts and the Border Reg't.

I have already placed my order for a 100% genuine KRRC badge, so they can go but only after they have been replaced, the Green Howards and the slidered Lincs, again will be replaced as with the Beds & Herts and the Border Reg't but will stay in the album ??

I will take issue with just three badges picked out, each by only one of the three, if I'm wrong, they will tell me why, I'm sure.......

Firstly the North Staffs, I have two, almost identical and I will argue, rightly or wrongly that having vent holes behind the rope helps to make me decide that it is, after all, OK, I will show photo's of the second badge at the end of me shouting off ????? for comparison of course !!

The second one I want to be convinced about, is the Lancs Fusiliers, it is, I believe, a Victorian badge, the flames of the grenade are full of ' the pink stuff ' but the right hand lug has at some time, been replaced by a newer ' footed ' lug, can any of the three confirm that this is possible ?

Lastly, thanks to Andy, my Territorial Force, blackened brass, 5th battalion Queen's badge is at the back of the drawer sulking with a bl**dy inferiorority complex, you can be hurtful Andy, OK, I want members to put me right and I knew that the majority of this very basic, little collection were kosher, so what I've heard so far hasn't really hurt me, the queen's badge, yes but not me.

A few more opinions would help because at the moment, on my shoulder, I have the rep for the grim reaper and the Three Musketeers.

Thanks a lot, I hope I haven't bored you ??? see photo's of the second badge, taken in poor light ( sorry ), for a comparison.

Regards.

Dave.

[Malcolm Davey]

Originally Posted by davec2

Hello Andy and Malc,
The second one I want to be convinced about, is the Lancs Fusiliers, it is, I believe, a Victorian badge, the flames of the grenade are full of ' the pink stuff ' but the right hand lug has at some time, been replaced by a newer ' footed ' lug, can any of the three confirm that this is possible ?

Regards.

Dave.

Dave
what you say is quite possible the right hand lug looks a later replacement, the fact that the front looks polished up is a bit off putting but then again we have the good old pink stuff at the back which i believe is a good sign.
i have known and know collectors who want the badges to look as new as possible so they strip all the old pattina off ,wrong in my opinion but every collector is not the same.

Malc

[davec2]

Hello gentlemen,

With reference to the Lancashire Fusiliers badge in my collection, the doubts raised were because of a ' footed ' lug, possibly a later repair, we thought.

It has been pointed out to me by a friend, that if I wish it to be a Victorian variant, he is under the impression that it should have three, not two lugs, he is waiting to check his notes.

So, if it turns out to be Edwardian and not Victorian, could it still be a genuine badge that has had a replacement lug fitted in the past ?? just to maintain the momentum, so to speak.

Dave.

[Malcolm Davey]

Originally Posted by davec2

Hello gentlemen,

With reference to the Lancashire Fusiliers badge in my collection, the doubts raised were because of a ' footed ' lug, possibly a later repair, we thought.

It has been pointed out to me by a friend, that if I wish it to be a Victorian variant, he is under the impression that it should have three, not two lugs, he is waiting to check his notes.

So, if it turns out to be Edwardian and not Victorian, could it still be a genuine badge that has had a replacement lug fitted in the past ?? just to maintain the momentum, so to speak.

Dave.

Dave i thought i would put up 3 of my badges which i believe are victorian for you to see.
Malc

[davec2]

Cheers Malc,

Your badge has made me almost convinced that mine is a newer variant and that it has had the right side lug, replaced.

The main reason for thinking this and you have to remember that I am now a qualified expert is the colour of the original lug ( on the left ), I can not believe it would be this colour and be still be Victorian.

I think we can put it to bed, apart from, of course, the decision on whether it is genuine or not ?? ie, did this model have both lugs and sliders when originally manufactured ??

Once again, thanks to my mates who are keeping me on my toes and yes, I'm still smiling.

Dave.

PS, your Wilts is nice too Malc. DC.

PS, Bad news folks, I've posted this and then had another, closer look, using a glass and I'm afraid to have to say this but all bets are off, under a really close scrutiny, the left sided lug also appears to have a foot, I guess whether it should have two or three lugs is now academic, another one for that auction site, ah well, been there, done it, lol. I was just going to erase this post but I have to leave it for the people who have taken time to try and help me, sorry guys, I guess it is a ' wrong un ' after all, DC.

[Luke H]

Originally Posted by joachim

Dave i thought i would put up 3 of my badges which i believe are victorian for you to see.
Malc

Malc,

Your Lancs Fus has a distinct dark patch in the flames which seems to match quite well the overspill of braze at the scroll-grenade attachment points. Do you think it could be braze i.e. possibly from a 3rd lug?

I'll own up now to being the guy who thought Lancs Fusiliers should have 3 lugs but as my notes are on my dead laptop and the memory is waining in my old age I have no way to confirm this or not.

Long time no speak btw.

Luke

[Luke H]

Originally Posted by davec2

PS, Bad news folks, I've posted this and then had another, closer look, using a glass and I'm afraid to have to say this but all bets are off, under a really close scrutiny, the left sided lug also appears to have a foot, I guess whether it should have two or three lugs is now academic, another one for that auction site, ah well, been there, done it, lol. I was just going to erase this post but I have to leave it for the people who have taken time to try and help me, sorry guys, I guess it is a ' wrong un ' after all, DC.

Dave,

What you have there isn't the kind of foot of which I speak, the wire which makes the lug has just been bent outwards probably to give the braze more surface area. Even whilst most Victorian badges don't have this I've seen it done on many genuine badges. Modern footed lugs I dislike and refer to are at the base of the lug and flattened into a spade-like shape. So I don't necessarily think what you have there is bad. Also the fact you have more build up of the braze pool one side suggests a hand braze rather than electronic braze which I'd suggest is also a good sign.

Looking at it pragmatically - why would anyone bother to repair a restrike? if it indeed is a repair IMO it probably isn't a repair as the gague of the wire, length etc looks identical.

And re patina of lugs, it all depends on how the badge has been kept and i.e how the copper subsequently ages and tarnishes.

Cheers,

Luke

P.S Here's a long dead thread which may interest some http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/for...ht=footed+lugs the restrike QVC badge in the second post has modern 'footed lugs'

[2747andy]

Dave,
I tend to agree with Luke on this one! It appears well constructed, the colour of the lugs would depend on it's use, a badge that's been exposed to a sweaty Lancastrian's brow for many years, would tarnish faster than a mint unissued example.

The GR would leave it, to collect another time perhaps! I certainly would not be in a rush to pass it on! - Andy

[davec2]

Thanks Andy and Luke,

This one is now back in the box, not only have I got a Queen's badge with an inferiorority complex, I've got a Lancs badge which doesn't know whether it's coming or going and a collector who is totally confused. one of my bronzes has been banished to that auction site but I'm still smiling, losing it but still smiling,

Thanks lads.
Dave.

[Malcolm Davey]

Originally Posted by Luke Halls

Malc,

Your Lancs Fus has a distinct dark patch in the flames which seems to match quite well the overspill of braze at the scroll-grenade attachment points. Do you think it could be braze i.e. possibly from a 3rd lug?

I'll own up now to being the guy who thought Lancs Fusiliers should have 3 lugs but as my notes are on my dead laptop and the memory is waining in my old age I have no way to confirm this or not.

Long time no speak btw.

Luke

Luke
After looking at the badge with a spy glass, my eyes are older than you lol
I come to believe you are corect and that the badge had at one point a 3rd lug at the neck of the grenade as there is also braze over flow at the top of the ball as well as the flames.

Malc

[dragonz18]

Hi Dave,
IMO, Luke has it correct !
It's the type of foot that is the key!
This type with the bent out & 'squared-off' ends appears, but not too often, on genuine badges. I think it may be a subcontractor's type ?? Have seen this on genuine Gaunt RND's also & occasionally on other badges as well. But not often enough to be really suspicious ? (There is also a more 'wire-like' type with bent out ends that occurs on some scottish badges too?)
The usual repro one is a flatter & rounded ( spade-like, indeed ), modern mass produced item( seen offered in bundles on Ebay occasionally),& found on many of the new made(?) badges. A minor 'flared' end ( or none at all )or small base foot is OK. The amount of braize used on these is usually minimal also(better modern types & process ?),leaving the foot exposed more.
So....... I think your badge is OK too!
(there does indeed seem to be residue at the top,indicating a possibly origional 3rd lug here)

Cheers !
Steve