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  #1  
Old 02-11-19, 06:22 PM
Westernhighlander Westernhighlander is offline
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Default Help ID Tam o'shanter

Hello
Anyone able to ID this Tam?
The patch looks to be Hidden Grey which is was used by the London Scottish, but badge is that of the Seaforth Highlanders...the London Scottish had a distinctly different badge, if this is the case.
Hat came as pictured....
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  #2  
Old 02-11-19, 06:26 PM
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leigh kitchen leigh kitchen is online now
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I think that the London Scottish would have a blue toorie (maybe not by the time this TOS was in wear) though they lllook favourite for this.
The Seaforth's badge doesn't look right at all, being set too high on the backing.
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  #3  
Old 02-11-19, 06:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Westernhighlander View Post
Hello
Anyone able to ID this Tam?
The patch looks to be Hidden Grey which is was used by the London Scottish, but badge is that of the Seaforth Highlanders...the London Scottish had a distinctly different badge, if this is the case.
Hat came as pictured....
The two are not connected as far as I'm aware, the Seaforth Highlanders wore a Mackenzie tartan backing and the London Scottish a Hodden-Grey as pictured, so a bit of a mish mash unfortunately


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  #4  
Old 02-11-19, 06:37 PM
Westernhighlander Westernhighlander is offline
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I agree,
The hat came as pictured with a collection of many other hats. I,too, don't believe the Seaforth badge belongs....
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  #5  
Old 02-11-19, 07:34 PM
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What does the writing on the liner of the cap say? I can make out the word Salt.
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  #6  
Old 02-11-19, 08:22 PM
Pretani Pretani is offline
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I would ask if there are any other marks on the TOS to indicate if it has had another badge attached to it at any time.

My gut instinct would be a mis-match. That said I am aware of unusual combinations being in existence. Did the Seaforths ever provide Permanent Staff Instructors to the London Scottish which could be an outside possibility and explanation?

By way of example, I was told the story of a CO of Glasgow and Strathclyde UOTC who a few years ago ordered all of his permanent staff to wear their capbadges on the TOS as that was the headdress of the unit.
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  #7  
Old 03-11-19, 06:27 PM
Westernhighlander Westernhighlander is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by High Wood View Post
What does the writing on the liner of the cap say? I can make out the word Salt.
Yes, besides his name written all over ( PJ Murray), in the center is stamped
SAND......fades ....AE or MAN, with a crows foot war dep stamp below SAND....not sure if that represents the maker, but the ink is same as the crows foot
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  #8  
Old 03-11-19, 06:45 PM
Westernhighlander Westernhighlander is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pretani View Post
I would ask if there are any other marks on the TOS to indicate if it has had another badge attached to it at any time.

My gut instinct would be a mis-match. That said I am aware of unusual combinations being in existence. Did the Seaforths ever provide Permanent Staff Instructors to the London Scottish which could be an outside possibility and explanation?

By way of example, I was told the story of a CO of Glasgow and Strathclyde UOTC who a few years ago ordered all of his permanent staff to wear their capbadges on the TOS as that was the headdress of the unit.

I think you are correct,
On the inside of the beret where the patch is sewn, there appear to be multiple holes where previous badge(s) must have been, but on the outside only the two holes... After removing the Seaforth Highlander badge there was no "ghosting" or difference in color which would indicate it had been there for some time...as that isn't the case, I suspect the original London Scottish badge was removed at some point and replaced by the SH badge for some reason....

Am I correct in assuming the patch is that of the London Scottish?
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  #9  
Old 06-01-20, 09:28 PM
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wairua wairua is offline
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Yes, that's a London Scottish Hodden Grey patch. Their Permanent Staff Instructors (PSI's) traditionally came from the Gordons or The Highlanders post amalgamation until the mid-2000's and now come from the Guards.

Your first photo appears to show some scroll shaped impressions near the bottom of the patch so if the lower lugs were cut off The Highlanders badge (this is certainly done to the Royal Regt of Scotland badge as the lower lugs are uncomfortable) the 2 holes could be for the upper lugs but I’d still expect to see another 2 holes for the crown and thistle worn between the antlers.

Of course, if a London Scottish badge fits the two holes in the patch then all I’ve written above is probably irrelevant. Not sure when the unit started wearing a royal blue toorie again but during the 1990’s and early 2000’s they wore a plain khaki toorie.
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  #10  
Old 31-07-20, 09:10 AM
lingevres lingevres is offline
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This pattern of ToS with the quilted liner was introduced either just before or at the start of WW2 and continued into the 1950's, might have been a bit latter with TA units. Certainly they were surplus items by the 1960, when a cheaper version was being worn. Prior to WW2 the WW1 pattern was worn, which had a 2 inch split at the bach which was fastened with a tie, which was formed into a bow. By WW2 the bow was just for decoration. You might be able to date it's manufacture by the Makers stamp. A lot were made by a Glasgow company called something like Grieg, I will dig out my examples later and check the details. But a number of other companies also made them.
I will also dig out a book I have about London Scottish uniforms and see what it says about the toorie colour, however it is probable during the war they would wear whatever they could get especially if there was a shortage of blue toories.
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  #11  
Old 31-07-20, 09:19 AM
lingevres lingevres is offline
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Found my book quicker than I thought, its called The uniforms of the london Scottish, 1859-1959, by J.O.Robson. Page 54 states "1937 The blue tourie on the Tam o' Shanter was replaced by a khaki tourie." It also mentions that a hodden grey rosette was used instead of blue.
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