Scottish badge ID please

[charlie962]

This extract from a portrait of a wounded soldier in hospital in France 1916 needs identification. Could it be Royal Scots or even Black Watch or ... ?
Many thanks
Charlie

Orchiston badge.JPG

[leigh kitchen]

MGC?

[charlie962]

Thanks
MGC looks quite possible but why the backing ? I was hoping someone might find a Scots regiment that fitted- eg a St Andrew's cross.
Charlie

[Jelly Terror]

I wonder if it is a case of artistic licence, where the artist has simply reinforced the Scots perspective by way of ‘suggesting’ the Saltire, rather than depicting a specific regimental badge?

It does look MGC-like though.

JT

[charlie962]

Thanks

He was wearing what look like hospital blues and as you say the headgear may have been Scottish representative. The need for identity is to help distinguish between two possible men of the same name and same town but different Regiments- eg the two I first noted.

Charlie

[peter monahan]

I agree with Jelly - artistic licence rather than faithful depiction.

[Advsmt]

I believe it is MGC from the 9th (Scottish) Div, probably a Royal Scots backing. My grandfather served with the 12th/Royal Scots them moved into one of the Brigade (27th I think, need to check) MGC Companies. I have a photograph of the company wearing TOS with tartan backing and MGC badges. See also page 34 of The Military Historical Society Special - Machine Gun Corps First World War Flashes and Badges.

Bryan

[charlie962]

Interesting. The Royal Scots possibility was an 11th Bn man so in same brigade (yes 27th) as 12th Bn.
Any chance of highlight from photo?

The BlackWatch man was 1/6th which was 51st Div

Thanks, Charlie

[Staffsyeoman]

Advmst has hit the nail on the head. When Captain Douglas Wimberley was, as his Battalion Machine Gun Officer, forcibly transferred from his Scottish line Battalion (The Cameron Highlanders?) to the Machine Gun Corps, as a proto-Scots nationalist he insisted that his Brigade Machine Gun Company adopt the TOS to underline their Scottishness. It was later adopted by 9th Battalion MGC when the Brigade Companies were formed into Divisional MG Battalions in 1918.

(Wimberley commanded 51st Highland Division at El Alamein; he was later, briefly, Director of Infantry)

[charlie962]

Thank you very much. Just to check my understanding:

I've extracted this from Wimberley's wiki page:

In October 1915 Wimberley, now aged 19 and the machine gun officer of his battalion (1st Bn Cameron Highlanders), fought in the Battle of Loos.

In January 1916 he was seconded to the newly created Machine Gun Corps (MGC) and served with the 1st and 2nd Brigade machine gun companies( these would be part of 1st Division ?), serving with them during the Somme offensive in the second half of 1916.

So Wimberley was not himself 9th Division in 1916 when the portrait I'm trying to identify was made (Aug 1916). But Bryan's comment suggests that the 9th Div may well have adopted a similar headgear in 1916 ?

All this adds comfort to portrait being 11th Royal Scots not 1/6th Black Watch.

Thanks again
Charlie

[Advsmt]

Sorry for the late reply. I’ve a problem with my scanner and the picture is not clear. But I distinctly remember my grandfather’s TOS when I was a boy and it did have a tartan backing - I only have his MGC badge now. Unfortunately my grandfather’s Service Record did not survive, like most of the MGCs, so I don’t know the exact date he transferred. Reading “Somewhere in Blood Soaked France”, about a Royal Scot with the 29th Div is interesting in that his diary records him being repeatedly asked to fransfer to the MGC even though he was serving in that capacity in a MGC unit, but as a Royal Scot! Another source, albeit an illustration is The Osprey Publication - Scottish Units in the World Wars. Colour Page F shows a MGC Sgt of the 51st (Scottish) Div, 51st Btl wearing TOS with backing. So on balance, I think, most Scots Div (9, 15, 51 & 52) MGC men wore the TOS and probably with a tartan backing.

Bryan

[Advsmt]

Another thought, the BW, and I know this is a generalisation, would not have a tartan backing on their glengarry, only their badge. When they are wearing a TOS it appears that a hackle and not a badge was worn. So BW men who served or moved to the MGC might be an interesting topic to pursue as to their headdress choice!

Bryan

[charlie962]

Thank you Bryan

Charlie