Dustbin Lug Base

[Frank Kelley]

I would not be confident in suggesting that this was actually contemporary with the period the regiment was extant, notwithstanding the lugs and the current bidding, I could never be happy with these badges.

Originally Posted by gary1666

I was under the impression the lugs with the round base where a sign to avoid the badge - is this always the case?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/133560625919
This is a Guards badge, very well made by the look of the front with enamel, but at leat one lug is the dustbin lid type - is the badge real? If its not real, it looks well made to my untrained eye.
Its not my thing it just popped up in suggested, and the price made me look.

[Ex Supt Clk RAOC]

I could not say if its genuine or a copy, as it's just not something that is of interest to me. Someone liked it enough to pay £510 for it in the end.
A lot to splash out if its wrong.

[gary1666]

I've been urged to come back to answer a couple of points - I may well regret it. Hopefully I have kept it courteous.

Luke, I have often read your posts and learnt a great deal from them. I appreciate you said that your comment wasn't intended to be accusatory and I'll take your view of it on board, but I would say that people tend not to question peoples actions if they believe that action to be inherently 'on the level'. Whether consciously or subconsciously, questioning an action tends to hint at a belief something underhand is occurring. If I am the only person who perceived an element of suspicion in the question then I'll stand to be corrected.

I do appreciate Mike's very balanced view of it, and I didn't really think about the post, until he pointed out the situation of people promoting auctions they have a proprietary interest in. If this was the suspicion then I'll point out now I have nothing to do with the items.

I also appreciate your point about peeking interest in items, although that supposes that I am in some way a little naive - from my point of view, I can't believe there wasn't a person with an interest in Para items on here who didn't have that come up in the saved searches (came up in mine), or had seen it. But I suppose it depends on how much time you spend on Ebay, and I appreciate that some people may not have had the time to find it. If it had been on £4.99 or hidden in a lot, I don't think I, or anyone else, would flag it up, but it was well into 3 figures, so already widely appreciated, and therefore very unlikely to be a bargain. I am looking to get Para items for my collection, and I weigh up cost against authenticity - would I rather take a risk with it being real? or as in this case, take a risk it costs me a little more by putting it on the forum, already knowing its been heavily bid on anyway and highly unlikely to be cheap but receiving some guidance as to authenticity. Probably a fraction of the bidders were even on this forum.

The Guards badge I thought was bad, but so many people bid, I thought I had missed something.

btns - well you certainly came in strong, both feet jumped straight in there.

Selfish - handily you provided some points which you used to quantify your assertion.**

Some members of this forum operate on a low budget which they compensate by searching long and wide. They are hoping to find misrepresented objects and gems lurking in piles of junk. Over time this has become part of their hobby. They hate members showing links to active items.

Of the two items I asked about, none where hidden in a lot as a so called sleeper and therefore not in the category of an item you would have to scour junk lots for - the beret in to 3 figures at the time of posting, the Guards badge on £330 odd. Both where single stand alone items and well described as to what they purported to be, as clearly the sellers wanted people to actually find them and bid, clearly not falling in to your 'mistepresented' category. I appreciate people hunt for bargains, I am one of them - who would post a bargain item and alert others?

Using your own reasoning, you will find that neither lot fitted your own stated criteria, simply clicking the link in the relevant posts would have clarified this. Your comment was a generalisation, and in this context without basis, therefore I would say unwarranted.

Having driven a 48 mile round journey on my only day off recently, solely to collect something for a forum member that they had asked on this forum for help with, and sent it to them for free, I tend to not class myself as selfish.

[altcar73]

Originally Posted by gary1666

I've been urged to come back to answer a couple of points - I may well regret it. Hopefully I have kept it courteous.

Luke, I have often read your posts and learnt a great deal from them. I appreciate you said that your comment wasn't intended to be accusatory and I'll take your view of it on board, but I would say that people tend not to question peoples actions if they believe that action to be inherently 'on the level'. Whether consciously or subconsciously, questioning an action tends to hint at a belief something underhand is occurring. If I am the only person who perceived an element of suspicion in the question then I'll stand to be corrected.

I do appreciate Mike's very balanced view of it, and I didn't really think about the post, until he pointed out the situation of people promoting auctions they have a proprietary interest in. If this was the suspicion then I'll point out now I have nothing to do with the items.

I also appreciate your point about peeking interest in items, although that supposes that I am in some way a little naive - from my point of view, I can't believe there wasn't a person with an interest in Para items on here who didn't have that come up in the saved searches (came up in mine), or had seen it. But I suppose it depends on how much time you spend on Ebay, and I appreciate that some people may not have had the time to find it. If it had been on £4.99 or hidden in a lot, I don't think I, or anyone else, would flag it up, but it was well into 3 figures, so already widely appreciated, and therefore very unlikely to be a bargain. I am looking to get Para items for my collection, and I weigh up cost against authenticity - would I rather take a risk with it being real? or as in this case, take a risk it costs me a little more by putting it on the forum, already knowing its been heavily bid on anyway and highly unlikely to be cheap but receiving some guidance as to authenticity. Probably a fraction of the bidders were even on this forum.

The Guards badge I thought was bad, but so many people bid, I thought I had missed something.

btns - well you certainly came in strong, both feet jumped straight in there.

Selfish - handily you provided some points which you used to quantify your assertion.**

Some members of this forum operate on a low budget which they compensate by searching long and wide. They are hoping to find misrepresented objects and gems lurking in piles of junk. Over time this has become part of their hobby. They hate members showing links to active items.

Of the two items I asked about, none where hidden in a lot as a so called sleeper and therefore not in the category of an item you would have to scour junk lots for - the beret in to 3 figures at the time of posting, the Guards badge on £330 odd. Both where single stand alone items and well described as to what they purported to be, as clearly the sellers wanted people to actually find them and bid, clearly not falling in to your 'mistepresented' category. I appreciate people hunt for bargains, I am one of them - who would post a bargain item and alert others?

Using your own reasoning, you will find that neither lot fitted your own stated criteria, simply clicking the link in the relevant posts would have clarified this. Your comment was a generalisation, and in this context without basis, therefore I would say unwarranted.

Having driven a 48 mile round journey on my only day off recently, solely to collect something for a forum member that they had asked on this forum for help with, and sent it to them for free, I tend to not class myself as selfish.

Well said mate!

Dave.

[btns]

Originally Posted by gary1666

I've been urged to come back to answer a couple of points - I may well regret it. Hopefully I have kept it courteous.

...

btns - well you certainly came in strong, both feet jumped straight in there.

Selfish - handily you provided some points which you used to quantify your assertion.**

Some members of this forum operate on a low budget which they compensate by searching long and wide. They are hoping to find misrepresented objects and gems lurking in piles of junk. Over time this has become part of their hobby. They hate members showing links to active items.

Of the two items I asked about, none where hidden in a lot as a so called sleeper and therefore not in the category of an item you would have to scour junk lots for - the beret in to 3 figures at the time of posting, the Guards badge on £330 odd. Both where single stand alone items and well described as to what they purported to be, as clearly the sellers wanted people to actually find them and bid, clearly not falling in to your 'mistepresented' category. I appreciate people hunt for bargains, I am one of them - who would post a bargain item and alert others?

Using your own reasoning, you will find that neither lot fitted your own stated criteria, simply clicking the link in the relevant posts would have clarified this. Your comment was a generalisation, and in this context without basis, therefore I would say unwarranted.

Having driven a 48 mile round journey on my only day off recently, solely to collect something for a forum member that they had asked on this forum for help with, and sent it to them for free, I tend to not class myself as selfish.

Thank you for responding to my complaint. I agree I gave you a harsh treatment. As a long time collector and member of forums I know the huge impact of forums on auction items.

Once a link is provided on a forum prices go up for both genuine and doubtful items. It may be the special attentiont, an opportunity to compete with other members or collectors reading forum messages but not searching auction sites.

A few examples from this forum (all are buttons or button manufacturers)

- an unidentified LF button had been given fancy names by sellers.
It sold for £ 2 to £ 3. Once identified on this forum as an early Legion of Frontiersmen button, the next one (one month later!) sold for £ 40. Soon afterwards more properly identified LF buttons were listed.

- Someone on the forum flagged an auction lot with original Firmin papers. I was hoping to get it as 'Firmin' was the only keyword. I think it sold for over £ 300.

- A new member introduced himself and gave a link to a rare railway/harbour button as an example of his interests. The auction was well described and easy to find. It had attracted a number of early bidders and it was on its way to my estimated £ 100. No one replied with a welcoming message and the button sold for over £ 300.
This is exactly your case. You think your listing will have no effect, but either a forum member or a guest will decide to get it. There are always 3x more guests than members on the forum.

It was not the first live item you were listing. I think this lot sold for a much higher price than many people expected.

Again: if you ask members to help you learn, please use closed auctions. You will get answers and you do not ruin other people's opportunities.

I highly appreciate members sharing their expertise by reporting fake items in live auctions and dodgy dealers.

regards,

[Luke H]

Gary fair play to you and your response which is courteous and I don’t think you should regret in the slightest. I take all your points on board, not intending to flog a dead horse whilst the GMGB had attracted a lot of bids already at £300 and ended at £510 if it had been real that’s less than half its list price. One hammered at C&T last week for £1,200.

As I said earlier I do hope you remain active on the forum.

[Alex Rice]

Just to put in my comment about the actual badge on auction after looking at it a few times. Although there is every possibility I am wrong, there are a number of things on the badge that look wrong to me and the quality for such an high-end item is poor. I believe it is a fake meant to deceive.
Cheers,
Alex

[Frank Kelley]

I think you have indeed missed something with the Guards badge, you have missed wasting your money, well done.

To be quite honest it is simply human nature, but, I think you are absolutely right, I never cease to be amazed by the rubbish being hawked on ebay as original and the amount of it that ends up on this site for an opinion as to it's originality, after being bought.

After reading this thread, I would not class you as selfish.

Originally Posted by gary1666

The Guards badge I thought was bad, but so many people bid, I thought I had missed something.


Some members of this forum operate on a low budget which they compensate by searching long and wide. They are hoping to find misrepresented objects and gems lurking in piles of junk. Over time this has become part of their hobby. They hate members showing links to active items.



Having driven a 48 mile round journey on my only day off recently, solely to collect something for a forum member that they had asked on this forum for help with, and sent it to them for free, I tend to not class myself as selfish.

[gary1666]

Hi,
Luke and btns, I appreciate you replies. I think its a pretty thorny issue that is unlikely to be one that everyone agrees on, or one where a happy medium can be achieved.