some australian shoulder titles

[badgecollector]

hi all
just arrived today.
including a few artillery for keith to enjoy.
and an awesome Victorian Rangers. seller thought its lugs were broken off and it had holes drilled in it. lol, of course there were never lugs and they were stitched onto the uniform.
bc

[badgecollector]

hi all
any thoughts on what the G would have been used for?
also, what period and who would have worn the straight australia title and the small curved title?
cheers
bc

[fairlie63]

G Coy Vic Rangers although the one I have seen had the G attached to the VR title.

[MartinRF]

Hello,

My collection of "some Australian shoulder titles"...

The straight "AUSTRALIA" shoulder titles were A.I.F. - as were the curved - but the only period sepia portrait I have showing them in use is attached, also.

(8{

[MartinRF]

The small, curved "AUSTRALIA" titles were worn by Officers, on the lapels immediately underneath the General Service collars, but I have only seen these being worn early on - more commonly/perhaps even only within the First Contingent.

The "AUSTRALIA" title signified those troops destined for overseas service - hence the use of the term "Imperial" within "A.I.F.". The A.M.F. / P.M.F. did not use it, though there are evidences of P.M.F. badges being worn together with the "AUSTRALIA" shoulder title - these instances would have been those who had served in the P.M.F. (never much other than 10,000 strong) and had signed up for overseas service (in the A.I.F.).

Some more of my devices...

(8{

[badgecollector]

Originally Posted by MartinRF

The small, curved "AUSTRALIA" titles were worn by Officers, on the lapels immediately underneath the General Service collars, but I have only seen these being worn early on - more commonly/perhaps even only within the First Contingent.
(8{

Hi Martin
Interesting. I have never heard of or seen this. Never even seen dress regs referring to this. Why would they have worn them on lapels?
Also when you say First Contingent are you referring to WW1 or Boer War?
BTW you have some nice items in your collection.
BC

[fairlie63]

Originally Posted by MartinRF

The small, curved "AUSTRALIA" titles were worn by Officers, on the lapels immediately underneath the General Service collars, but I have only seen these being worn early on - more commonly/perhaps even only within the First Contingent.

Hello MartinRF

The "AUSTRALIA" title signified those troops destined for overseas service - hence the use of the term "Imperial" within "A.I.F.". The A.M.F. / P.M.F. did not use it, though there are evidences of P.M.F. badges being worn together with the "AUSTRALIA" shoulder title - these instances would have been those who had served in the P.M.F. (never much other than 10,000 strong) and had signed up for overseas service (in the A.I.F.).

Some more of my devices...

(8{

The PMF at any time was never much more than 1000 strong until it became the Regular Army after the Second World War. The 'Australia' title in gilt was worn by officers of the Australian Staff Corps in overseas postings from 1922. The Australian Siege Brigade was initially raised from volunteers of the PMF, and reinforced from volunteers from the CMF. It was a wholly AIF unit, not PMF, and wore the 'Australia' title as well as the copper oxidised hat and collar badges of the Siege Brigade, which were based on the RAA collar badge. The RAA scroll was not authorised as a hat badge for the PMF until 1921.

We probably need a photo if we may of the officers wearing the curved Australia title on their collars. They were authorised to wear the unit numeral and corps designation on their collars but most of them appear to have avoided doing that as well.

Cheers, Keith

[vigilans]

Originally Posted by MartinRF

The small, curved "AUSTRALIA" titles were worn by Officers, on the lapels immediately underneath the General Service collars, but I have only seen these being worn early on - more commonly/perhaps even only within the First Contingent.

The "AUSTRALIA" title signified those troops destined for overseas service - hence the use of the term "Imperial" within "A.I.F.". The A.M.F. / P.M.F. did not use it, though there are evidences of P.M.F. badges being worn together with the "AUSTRALIA" shoulder title - these instances would have been those who had served in the P.M.F. (never much other than 10,000 strong) and had signed up for overseas service (in the A.I.F.).

Some more of my devices...

(8{

Never seen the Australia title worn on the collar, but below are some pics of numerals and other titles being worn on collars

[vigilans]

Originally Posted by badgecollector

hi all
just arrived today.
including a few artillery for keith to enjoy.
and an awesome Victorian Rangers. seller thought its lugs were broken off and it had holes drilled in it. lol, of course there were never lugs and they were stitched onto the uniform.
bc

Rangers title with lugs

[MartinRF]

Hello,

The bottom row of that frame of badges contains my (paltry) Light Horse collection - so, between the 7th (image attached) and the 13th is a 10th Light Horse collar.

I have further attached - still a little off-topic, am afraid - an image of a cloth trade/qualification badge, worn on a greatcoat, which I have never managed to identify.

Also, I have never come across an Officer wearing a trade/qualification badge - well, here's one sitting among a group of Trench Mortarmen.

The only other exception was, perhaps, the picture of a Bandmaster marching/playing alongside the front rank (but he could well be a Warrant Officer, for all the detail the image gives).

Enjoy...

(8{

[fairlie63]

Originally Posted by MartinRF

I have further attached - still a little off-topic, am afraid - an image of a cloth trade/qualification badge, worn on a greatcoat, which I have never managed to identify.

Also, I have never come across an Officer wearing a trade/qualification badge - well, here's one sitting among a group of Trench Mortarmen.

(8{

MartinRF,

The badge on the greatcoat is a half-wing in a wreath with the letters AFC below. It was mentioned recently on the forum, another photo exists, and it is possible that it was a badge supplied by a military outfitter in Victoria who was under investigation for his illegal activities in this regard. It was entirely unofficial and appears to have been intended to represent the AFC, not a particular trade or skill.

The bombers grenade was authorised for officers, the trench mortar grenade was also worn by some infantry light trench mortar battery officers.

Are you saying all those copper oxidised Australian badges in your photograph were worn during the Great War?

Keith

[MartinRF]

Hello,

...probably going to get my A.I.F. collection ripped apart, but although there are 1939-45 versions of many of the same oxydised trade/qualification badges, when comparing the two: they are far more stout (i.e. they don't easily bend - by not having the higher copper content that 1939-45 badges at times have), they have quite a different oxydising finish to them, they have lugs same/similar to other A.I.F. cap/collar/title versions, their detail is finer/more crisp. Of course, I may be totally wrong...

I am not understanding just why the trade/qualification metal badges were oxydised after the Great War conflict? - I understood that the subduing nature of the oxidation process was less for preserving the badge, being more for security purposes - though I have found few photographs of the 1914-19 oxydised versions being worn.

I have attached a few images of some worsted equivalents...

(8{

[MartinRF]

Hello,

...have found some dates for a few of the trade/qualification badges:

787. Badges - Machine Gunners, Bombers and Trench Mortar Batteries.
1) Proficiency Badges for Machine Gunners.
1st Class (Vickers) Machine Gunners with Machine Gun Squadrons and Companies will wear the arm badge already authorized by Musketry Regulations, i.e. letters "M.G." in laurel wreath. (Authority: G.R.O. 2291 of 7th May 1917.)
2) Proficincy Badges for Lewis Gunners and Hotchkiss Gunners.
1st Class Lewis Machine Gunners and Hotchkiss Gunners will wear Badges "L.G." in wreath and "H.G." in wreath respectively. They will not wear the "M.G." in wreath, which is reserved for 1st Class Machine Gunners. These badges will be worn, as in the case of 1st Class Machine Gunner's badge, on the left arm below the elbow. (Authority: G.R.O. 2291 of 7th May 1917.)
3) Badges for Regimental and Battalion Bombers.
Battalion and Regimental Bombers who have qualified in the tests laid down in "The Training and Employment of Bombers," will wear a distinctive bomber's badge of a grenade in worsted embroidery (khaki with red flame) on the right sleeve of the service dress jacket, the top of the flame 1/2 inch below the unit colour patch.
4) Distinguishing Badges for Men Serving in Trench Mortar Batteries.
Members of Trench Mortar Batteries are authorized to wear a badge consisting of a grenade in blue worsted embroidery on the right sleeve of the service dress jacket, the top of the flame 1/2 inch below the unit colour patch.
This badge will be awarded to all men serving in trench mortar batteries on the recommendation of Commanding Officers, and will be worn only while the men are serving in the batteries. (Authority: G.R.O. 1364.)
(Authority: D.A.G., A.I.F., 15/72 of 28.7.17.)

791. Badges. General Routine Orders, General Headquarters, Mediterranean Expeditionary Force, 31st January, 1916
It is noted for information that a badge for men serving in Trench Mortar Batteries has been approved.
The badge is a grenade in blue worsted embroidery and is to be worn in the same position as the badge authorized by Army Order 403 of 1915 for Grenadiers, i.e. on the right sleeve of the service Dress Jacket, The top of the flame 1 inch below the shoulder seam.

897. Badges - Regimental and Battalion Bombers.
With reference to para. (3) of A.I.F. Order No. 787 of 7.8.17, it is notified that in accordance with Army Council Instruction No. 1420 of 14.9.17, the badges for bombers will in future be embroidered all in scarlet instead of khaki with red flame as stated in the above quoted order.
Stocks of existing badges will be used up before the new badge is issued.
(Authority: D.A.G., A.I.F., 15/72 of 29.9.17.)

1127. - Badges for Bombers :-
1. With reference to A.I.F. Orders Nos. 787 of 7/8/17 and 897 of 5/10/17, it is notified that the issue of badges for bombers will, in future, be confined to:-
(i) Officer and N.C.O. instructors at Command and Army Bombing Schools and Corps Bombing Schools in France;
(ii) All Brigade, Training Brigade, Regimental, Battalion and Training Battalion bombing officers;
(iii) One N.C.O. Instructor in bombing per company in Training Battalions;
(iv) Battalion bombing Sergeant Instructors;
(v) The Officer i/c Bombing and N.C.O. Instructors in Bombing at Command Depots;
(vi) Officers and N.C.O. Bombing Instructors at Machine Gun Training Depot.
2. N.C.O.s and men, however, who though not employed as above, are already in possession of their badges, may continue to wear them.
(Authority: D.A.G., A.I.F., 15/102 of 14.2.18.)

1271. Physical and Bayonet Training Instructors - Distinguishing Badge. - Approval is given for the wearing of the "crossed swords" badge by members of the A.I.F. who are qualified P.T. & B.F. instructors with Aldershot certificates, as authorized in the British Army.
(Authority: D.A.G., A.I.F., 15/124 of 24.6.18.)

Also a few more of the worsted badge collection...

(8{