Military Police GRVI letter type - British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum

P.Jones · #1 12-03-08, 01:10 AM

HI,
Does anyone know at what date the letter type of the GR scrolls were changed? And does it have a different number in KK, yes I will have too buy the book. Are there any known re-strikes of military police badges? Apart from the military foot police. Any other information comments etc.

Thanks,

Philip

Malcolm Davey · #2 12-03-08, 01:41 AM

The only change to the scroll was when the title changed to Corps of Royal Military Police granted in 1946 and sealed 14th may 1948.

Cheers
Malc

Mike · #3 12-03-08, 09:36 AM

here's mine, which has the scroll letter shape from one of your badges and the "GVIR" from the other. have had this one from the mid 70's

don't think the letter shape would have generated another K&K number they are just manufacturer (or restrikers!) variants. The big change as Malc says is the granting of the "Royal" title and subsequent title scroll re-design, which definitely did warrant a new K&K number and illustration for the book.

Malcolm Davey · #4 12-03-08, 09:51 AM

Sorry totally missed your point, do you mean the void between the bottom of the wreath and the scroll? if so as admin states it is prob a manufacturer (or restrikers!) variant.

Heres mine
Cheers
Malc

Chrisr · #5 12-03-08, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P.Jones

HI,
Are there any known re-strikes of military police badges? Apart from the military foot police.

Philip,
I have handled a re-strike of the GR VI pattern you have shown. It was a very good copy but the metal was thin and it bent too easily for my liking.
Cheers
Chros

Sonofacqms · #6 12-03-08, 07:28 PM

One of the first cap badges I was given was a GviR Military police cap badge minus the slider, it was made of thin gilding metal. Several years later I persuaded my Father to ask a mate of his (WWII CMP vet) for his badge, when it came I was totally disappointed as it was made from the same gauge metal but the slider and crown had broken away from the wreath and monogram!
For some reason known only to the powers that were, Corps of Military Police GviR cap badges were made by some company that made them from thin metal. When I hear people say that these badges bend and are made from thin brass etc, they are the issue badges!
55 years ago those badges given were worn by the ex-servicemen!

P.Jones · #7 13-03-08, 12:43 AM

Sorry,
I obviously wasn’t very clear with my question I was referring to (Corps Military Police not Royal Military Police) the letters in the monogram of the G and R where the scroll of the G and left hand scroll of the letter R curl round each other in left hand photo and not in the right hand photo.

Jochim the void between the wreath and the scroll is solid in the left hand photo and not in the right hand photo. The badge on the Right although thin is not that easy to bend, but I’m not Uri Geller!!
So am I right in assuming from your input that the badge on the left is a re-strike?

I will try and get in contact with Barrie Morris.

Shame to think there are so many re-strikes. Suppose I could always start collecting brass Zippo lighters or is drift wood still the best option!!

Many Thanks for everyone’s input and the photographs always helpful,

Philip

Chrisr · #8 13-03-08, 05:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sonofacqms

When I hear people say that these badges bend and are made from thin brass etc, they are the issue badges!
55 years ago those badges given were worn by the ex-servicemen!

Not the one I was referring to. It was an ebay re-strike and very,very new. No patina what so-ever. I purchased it for someone who wanted a badge to go with his father's medals. It wasn't an original, although it is interesting to know that the originals were thin and bent easily as well.

I wonder if there are other examples of units having thin originals.

Malcolm Davey · #9 13-03-08, 07:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P.Jones

Jochim the void between the wreath and the scroll is solid in the left hand photo and not in the right hand photo. The badge on the Right although thin is not that easy to bend, but I’m not Uri Geller!!
So am I right in assuming from your input that the badge on the left is a re-strike?
Philip

Philip
Put it this way if i was offered it i would pass it up, purely because it does not look right, but thats my opinion. If your happy with it as a different variation then thats all that counts.

Cheers
Malc

Sonofacqms · #10 13-03-08, 06:17 PM

Having checked my collection of Military Police badges all are voided below the laurels and the scroll GvR, GviR, GviR plastic, EiiR G/M, A/A, Officers S/P.
On a humorous note I have an A/A cap badge with the P & O removed, could the perpetrator have had a brush with the Redcaps?

P.Jones · #11 14-03-08, 12:53 AM

Thanks for your advice Malc I wasn’t happy with it that is why I thought I would ask the more experienced members will put it in my very large iffy box!!

Sonofacqms, all voided below the laurels and scrolls thanks for that.

_ _Lice Yep it’s a hell of a job but someone has to do it!!

Many thanks,

Philip

Alan O · #12 14-03-08, 04:25 PM

I would point out that the number of voids vary with the maker and is not proof of a restrike or otherwise. I have a GVI Military Police badge with only one void that is 100% genuine, a Gv with 3 voids around the wreath's centre and a GVI Royal Military Polive (post '46) with none. If you look in Wilkinsons book at badge 289 and 290 he shows the Q/C variant with 3 voids including 2 at the ends and a GVi with none.

There are no hard and fast rules here as the RMP/CMP was a big Corps and there were clearly several makers. I am not saying that any of the badges shown above are wrong only that there are other varieties that may also be correct.

Alan

P.Jones · #13 15-03-08, 01:00 AM

Alan,
Thanks for the information and as always your logical approach and the photographs I can’t get enough of them. So much can be learned from these photographs. Is there any information on the various makers of the (royal) Military Police badges? Incidentally do you (or perhaps anyone else) have a photograph of a KE VII Military police badge that you could post on the forum?

Many thanks,

Philip

Alan O · #14 15-03-08, 07:48 AM

Phillip,

With the exception of the Plastic WW2 economy (107369 were ordered from Stanley and Sons Walsall) and anodised aluminuim ones which are still in production, I have never seen makers names on them although this is the norm for ORs badges. In terms of varities I have not seen an EVII one but that is not to say they are not out there. The GV one was hard enough to find and the GVI with the extra 'Royal' in the title are quite scarce. Bosley's sold a silver staybrite for a considerable sum last year and I have never found out whether this was a makers' error or had some significance.

Alan

dragonz18 · #15 15-03-08, 09:06 AM

PJ,
I'm a 1902-22 British Badge collector, so ERvii is right in my field !
Attached pics are from a recent limited Photo ID set I made of some Corps badges. No back pics were made at that time, my appologies, & badges are now back in their frame. Will make some later ,if required.?
Have had both for a long while now.
ERvii - 2 lugs E-W
GRv - Slider

Cheers !
Steve