RBY Shoulder Title - Bucks or Berks?

[4966Ian]

Hi there,

Hopefully one of you experts out there may be able to help with this query.

I recently purchased the small metal “R.B.Y” officer’s shoulder title shown below. (Size: 36.4mm wide x 6.8mm High)
(N.B. Please note the photos were taken with a Flash).

Now I know that Westlake (Collecting Metal Shoulder Titles - Pub 1980) shows this shoulder title (Fig. 271) as being an officers’ title to the Royal Bucks Hussars as against the usual RBH shoulder title worn by O/R’s in the Royal Bucks Hussars.

However, speaking to several collectors/dealers they felt that Westlake may not be correct with his identification in this case. Because a unit and especially the Officer’s of that unit which was designated as Hussars would wish to be known as Hussars and not the generic Yeomanry term as indicated by the RBY title.

Other than Westlake, does anyone have any proof/photos etc. of who wore this shoulder title?

One other option is that it is an officers’ title to the Royal Berkshire Yeomanry but only a suggestion.

Many thanks in advance for your suggestions/help.

Cheers

Ian

[GriffMJ]

Hi Ian

I dont think the Berkshire Yeomanry were ever designated as "Royal"?

[GriffMJ]

Hi Ian

I dont think the Berkshire Yeomanry were ever designated as "Royal"?

By 1803 there were three Yeomanry Regiments in the Buckinghamshire area collectively known as the 1st, 2nd and 3rd regiments of the Buckinghamshire Yeomanry this lasted until 1827, when the 1st and 3rd Regiments were disbanded. In 1845 Queen Victoria conferred the title "Royal" on the Regiment this changed the unit's name to The 2nd Royal Bucks Regiment of Yeomanry.Then in 1889 there was another change in name this time to the Royal Buckinghamshire Hussars Yeomanry.

So RBH or RBY could be used

[4966Ian]

Hi Griff,

With regards to the "Royal Berkshire Yeomanry" - I only raised that as an option as they were known as "Royal Berkshire Yeomanry Cavalry" or "Royal Berkshire Yeomanry" through their life - however unofficially they used the "Royal".

Please see the Officer's waist belt for the use of "Royal Berkshire Yeomanry Cavalry" (It actually says "Royal Berks Yeo Cav" - but you get my drift) and what is now a cushion but was probably the corner of a horses' shabraque (Blanket) for "Royal Berkshire Yeomanry".

Cheers

Ian

[Jibba Jabba]

I really like that Ian. Thats probably the most valuable cushion I've ever seen!

[4966Ian]

Yes I was very pleased to get it. But equally dismayed that someone had destroyed the shabraque just to make a cushion. But then maybe the shabraque would not have survived if it hadn't been made into a cushion. The back of the cushion is plain and is just more of the dark blue material. I have opened the cushion up in case there was something interesting used as the stuffing. But no, just loads of man-made material. Don't know if you can see in the picture but the cushion is edged with brown and white cows hide (I assume it is cow and not horse!).

Ian

[GriffMJ]

Lovley items Ian.... I like the cushion very much also! I like the fact the Shabraque was used again by the officers wife to make a household item.... you can see that on a big leather chesterfield in a smokey drawing room with the smell of cigars and wiskey in the air

[matti467]

Great stuff Ian, do you collect Berks Yeo?
Matti

[4966Ian]

Hi Matti,

Yes everything Berkshire related (e.g. 49th/66th, R Berks Regt, Militia, Rifle Vols, VB, OTC, Wessex, DERR, RGBW and of course Berkshire Yeomanry) though with the cost of things I am spread very thinly across these areas.

I took a punt on the RBY shoulder title maybe being Berkshire related rather than Bucks as the Berkshire Yeomanry's buttons (Pre the buttons that had the white horse over Berkshire ) used to have "RBY" under a QVC or KC. So there was a bit of logic to my maddness. Probably not enough though in this case!

What I hope to find is a picture of an Officer in the Royal Bucks Hussars or the Berkshire Yeomanry with said RBY title and I will at least know one way or the other.

Ian

[magpie]

Collecting metal shoulder titles by ray westlake, p23 RBY(271)is an officers' title. Royal Bucks Hussars
Andy.

[andrewfrench]

Originally Posted by GriffMJ

Lovley items Ian.... I like the cushion very much also! I like the fact the Shabraque was used again by the officers wife to make a household item.... you can see that on a big leather chesterfield in a smokey drawing room with the smell of cigars and wiskey in the air

Hi all
Slightly off original message. A rather grainy photograph of Captain ED Stern showing his full dress sabretache, sheepskin and shabraque from the mid 1890s.

regards
Andrew

[4966Ian]

Hi Andrew,

A nice photo, many thanks for sharing.

Just out of curiousity, have you seen any Berkshire Yeomanry officer's wearing the small "R.B.Y" shoulder as shown at the start of the thread? (Clutching at straws now!).

Many thanks

Ian

[andrewfrench]

Hi Ian

I am pretty certain you have a Royal Bucks Hussars soulder title. The Berks never wore wone like that.

I took a photo of the cormer of a RBYC shabraque in our museum last night, whic is similar to you cushion. When I have worked out how to make it small enough, I will post it up.

Regards
Andrew

[4966Ian]

Andrew,

Thanks for the confirmation or not, that the Berkshire yeomanry didn't wear the RBY title. It was a long shot but it was worth a go, just in case.

Ian