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  #1  
Old 20-03-19, 02:56 PM
rob carman rob carman is offline
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Default Norfolk Volunteers - badge question

Good morning,

The attached image is from Norfolk Regt Man. It shows badges of the Norfolk Volunteers. I have a few questions about the badges.

Does the King’s Crown mean the badge was issued after 1902?

Was there a pre-1902 Queen’s Crown version?

When was this style of badge introduced? When was it withdrawn?

What style of badge preceded this one?

Rob.
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File Type: jpg tilney badge.jpg (54.7 KB, 86 views)
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  #2  
Old 20-03-19, 03:00 PM
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The Crown is actually a Coronet and was used in Victorian times. It is the same style of coronet a sworn by the 20th Hussars circa 1896-1902.
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  #3  
Old 20-03-19, 03:35 PM
rob carman rob carman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan O View Post
The Crown is actually a Coronet
That is very helpful. Combinations of men and uniform that seemed impossible now begin to make sense. Thank you.

Would still like to know what/when came before this badge. Anybody?
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  #4  
Old 20-03-19, 03:50 PM
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If it's a hat badge then to understand that you need to know what hat it was worn on.

In all likelihood it was for a side cap which replaced the cavalry's badgeless pill box cap in the late 1890s and the Infantry's Glengarry. being Volunteers they may have done their own thing of course.

This was the 3rd's Glengary

https://www.regimentalbadges.com/upl...main_size2.jpg

Last edited by Alan O; 20-03-19 at 03:57 PM.
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  #5  
Old 20-03-19, 03:58 PM
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With a monogram NVR, isnt it more likely to be a WW1 VTC unit badge if indeed the NVR stands for Norfolk Volunteer Regiment?

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  #6  
Old 20-03-19, 04:07 PM
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The VTC badge in K&K is not this one. Correction - the VTC had several badges so it might be.
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  #7  
Old 20-03-19, 04:13 PM
rob carman rob carman is offline
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Forage caps, but I am I am no expert.

The wearer in the attached image (uncredited because I have lost the details) was a member of 2 Volunteer Bn, Norfolk Regiment, from 1883 to 1912. I have a second image of unrelated Volunteers in frock coats with this cap badge - they are posing with men in grey uniforms, not finally forsaken until 1888 by 4 Vol Bn, Norfolk Regt.
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  #8  
Old 20-03-19, 04:36 PM
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That confirms that is for the Norfolk Rifle Volunteers (later VB) in the 1880s and not the Norfolk Volunteer Regiment of 1915-16
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  #9  
Old 20-03-19, 04:39 PM
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Yes, I should have read it as NRV !!

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  #10  
Old 20-03-19, 04:49 PM
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If that is the case the hat badge that preceded the Kepi one in the photo is this one which was worn by the 4th RV on the shako:

https://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/a...c-a5ee009b2a7b

This preceded that hat in your photo and it was then replaced by the glengarry in the earlier link.

The glengarry was replaced by the Field Service Cap (side cap) which was often worn badgeless or with a collar on it. This in turn was replaced by the Norfolk Britannia in a Wreath cap badge with the VB title on the Brodrick and then peaked cap.

Last edited by Alan O; 21-03-19 at 08:40 AM.
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  #11  
Old 21-03-19, 08:56 AM
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Default nvr and norfolk badges being worn

hi all , heres just one photo of the NVR badge



The officers in the light grey uniforms are not The City of Norwich Volunteers from 1863
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File Type: jpg s-l1600 nyr.jpg (72.6 KB, 56 views)

Last edited by norfolk regt man; 21-03-19 at 09:10 AM.
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  #12  
Old 21-03-19, 09:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rob carman View Post
Forage caps, but I am I am no expert.

The wearer in the attached image (uncredited because I have lost the details) was a member of 2 Volunteer Bn, Norfolk Regiment, from 1883 to 1912. I have a second image of unrelated Volunteers in frock coats with this cap badge - they are posing with men in grey uniforms, not finally forsaken until 1888 by 4 Vol Bn, Norfolk Regt.
Your photo, taken by me, that shows Tilney, was taken at Tilney gunsmiths in Norfolk. The shop still has a jacket and the trophy he won , all with a long of other nice bits and bobs. Because Tilney was a good shot he often was at bisley , serving under both the Norfolk and Suffolk regts.
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  #13  
Old 21-03-19, 01:41 PM
rob carman rob carman is offline
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Thank you all. I am now better informed but still have some follow up questions.

Andrew, I apologise for cutting and pasting your photo of Tilney. It was simply the most effective way to link NRV with the Rifle Volunteers. I have added your name to my notes.

I think the grey-clad chap, middle row, far RIGHT of your photo, is Lt Col Robert Thornhagh Gurdon, 21st (Wymondham) Rifle Coy and later 4 Vol Bn. For comparison, his portrait is at https://artuk.org/discover/artworks/...y-council-1389. In the full sized photo, Lt Col James Duff, 15th East Dereham Rifle Cpoy and later 3 Vol Bn, is seated two places to Gurdon's left, off screen and other 3 VB are present in blue frock coats and caps. Duff and Gurdon camped their units together quite often during the 1870s an 1880s.

The attached (NWHRM: 1034.165, the free thumbnail from the Royal Norfolk Regt Museum) shows RT Gurdon (standing in grey) and AE Gurdon (lying down in grey), both 4 VB, with other volunteers. Ctr back holding the cane is Lt Col James Duff, 3 VB. Again I can ID the same extra 3 VB in the blue frock coat group, but no more 4 VB members. None of the men wearing blue forage caps have the Britannia badge or the NVR badge and all seem to have the same badge, suggesting this is an was taken before other designs appeared. Might their's have been a 3VB specific badge? Where in the genealogy of Norfolk Volunteer cap badges does this fall, earlier or later than Britannia or NRV?

Rob.

Last edited by rob carman; 27-03-19 at 05:31 PM.
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  #14  
Old 21-03-19, 02:36 PM
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The Norfolks Britannia in Wreath cap badge came in to use in the late 1890s for wear on the side cap and later the Brodrick in 1903 and 1905 pattern peaked cap..

These men are before that and appear to be wearing a kepi style hat with this style of badge

Last edited by Alan O; 21-03-19 at 07:42 PM.
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  #15  
Old 21-03-19, 07:31 PM
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The Regular Battalions adapted the FSC with collar badges in circa 1896 and this badge design was sealed in 1897 for the new cap. This is an all wm version which may be VB or miitia,

VB badges were made with the Vb title on the scrolls. Unfortunately there is no record of when these were made and it may have been circa 1905.
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