King's Own Scottish Borderers Officer

[Toby Purcell]

Originally Posted by Scottish Borderers

Toby,
The photo in question is that of 2nd Lt Arthur Cecil Braithwaite who died in Egypt in 1909. It has always been perceived that the small badge being worn belonged to the Adjt the photo of the 2nd Lt dispells that theory.

I have attached a second image of Capt Wilkinson later Lt Col and is a good example of the headress.

Regards
Gerry

Thank you for your reply Gerry, as mentioned above there’s more to this order of dress in Lowland Scots regiments than is realised and more yet to learn I think. The universal forage cap (diced) and frock coat was regulation for all KOSB regimental officers between 1904 and 1914, without question, but the extent that it’s usage was observed outside of battalion HQ, and what befel it post war is yet to be determined it seems.

[Borderer]

Hi Toby,

Sorry I have not answered sooner to your very detailed and much appreciated reply, I have been down helping in the huge task of cataloguing and preserving the museums archives, prior to them going into storage for the refurbishment, there are some real gems being discovered within the thousands of manila envelopes and I feel very privileged to be involved.
You are right that this form of dress was hoisted onto the lowland regiments and must have added an additional expense to young officers when purchasing their uniforms, with very little use for it in the greater scheme of things, it was more than likely shared out within the ranks of the junior officers, as I know they did with the Blue Patrol Jackets in my day, the same as we did in the WO & Sgts Mess when on BOS or BOO (WO's) duty.
I also fully agree it would be nice to see, if one exists? of a group photograph of Lowland Regimental Officers in this form of dress. This form of undress was as you say more than likely worn in and around Regimental and Battalion HQ by the officers employed carrying out the various daily duties, with the main one being the Adjutant, I have done some research into this appointment and the officers rank does vary between senior 2Lt (on the cusp of promotion)to Lt and Capt (the Capt more than likely was promoted from Lt to Capt while in post as Adjutant) I say this when I studied the the book published in 1875 Records of the Regiment, in the Appendix are the nominal rolls of the Officers and appointments and nearly all the Adjutants are Lt when appointed, so a Capt was quite a rare beast in those days to be Adjutant.
Obviously like every thing within the military things do evolve and change as do the time we live in, where circumstances changed and demands are greater on particular appointments, the ranks of the officer would reflect the importance of the appointment and I think after WW1 the Adjutant was mostly a Captains appointment.
Here is another interesting snippet I would like to share about the 1904 Infantry Officers Forage Cap with the diced band and regimental cap badge, which we have in the museums collection. This at first glance, one would think it is a khaki colour Forage Cap, where in fact after close inspection, it is the universal pattern dark blue in colour 1904 pattern FC, but with a Khaki issued cover, to have this khaki cover for this form of headdress is rare indeed, and I have not seen one anywhere else to date.

Kind regards
Hiram

[Toby Purcell]

Originally Posted by Borderer

Hi Toby,

Sorry I have not answered sooner to your very detailed and much appreciated reply, I have been down helping in the huge task of cataloguing and preserving the museums archives, prior to them going into storage for the refurbishment, there are some real gems being discovered within the thousands of manila envelopes and I feel very privileged to be involved.
You are right that this form of dress was hoisted onto the lowland regiments and must have added an additional expense to young officers when purchasing their uniforms, with very little use for it in the greater scheme of things, it was more than likely shared out within the ranks of the junior officers, as I know they did with the Blue Patrol Jackets in my day, the same as we did in the WO & Sgts Mess when on BOS or BOO (WO's) duty.
I also fully agree it would be nice to see, if one exists? of a group photograph of Lowland Regimental Officers in this form of dress. This form of undress was as you say more than likely worn in and around Regimental and Battalion HQ by the officers employed carrying out the various daily duties, with the main one being the Adjutant, I have done some research into this appointment and the officers rank does vary between senior 2Lt (on the cusp of promotion)to Lt and Capt (the Capt more than likely was promoted from Lt to Capt while in post as Adjutant) I say this when I studied the the book published in 1875 Records of the Regiment, in the Appendix are the nominal rolls of the Officers and appointments and nearly all the Adjutants are Lt when appointed, so a Capt was quite a rare beast in those days to be Adjutant.
Obviously like every thing within the military things do evolve and change as do the time we live in, where circumstances changed and demands are greater on particular appointments, the ranks of the officer would reflect the importance of the appointment and I think after WW1 the Adjutant was mostly a Captains appointment.
Here is another interesting snippet I would like to share about the 1904 Infantry Officers Forage Cap with the diced band and regimental cap badge, which we have in the museums collection. This at first glance, one would think it is a khaki colour Forage Cap, where in fact after close inspection, it is the universal pattern dark blue in colour 1904 pattern FC, but with a Khaki issued cover, to have this khaki cover for this form of headdress is rare indeed, and I have not seen one anywhere else to date.

Kind regards
Hiram

Hello Hiram,

Thank you for your very welcome reply, I do certainly envy you in your task going through regimental archives and artefacts, it’s something that would interest me too.

I agree with all your comments 100% and like you I think that the frock coat was something that most Lowland Scots officers of that period would have had little use for. The newly introduced service dress was gaining traction and the blue patrol jacket / serge frock (both terms were used, one in army DR and the other in common speech) was eminently more practical. There was much competing for the officers purchasing power and I think you’re right that the frockcoat would have been low down the priorities list. It’s been largely forgotten now but in 1904 the new DR reflected decisions taken in 1902 to reduce the amount of expensive uniform that an officer was expected to purchase following criticism during the war that becoming an officer was unaffordable for the emerging middle classes. This retrenchment manifested itself most clearly in the abolition of levee dress with its gold laced trousers, special sash and other items and must have at a stroke put many lacemakers out of business. There was a general climate of reducing unnecessary expense.

Your comment regarding the rank of adjutants is absolutely spot on! There were two particular factors that influenced this. First it’s often forgotten that before 1922 company commanders were generally at the rank of captain and there were very few majors in a battalion, usually two, but occasionally three in which case one of the company commanders was a major. Ergo the position of adjutant was generally taken up by a very senior subaltern on the cusp of promotion as you have said. The second factor is that after WW1 there was a glut of officers across the army, especially in the ranks of colonel and brigadier general and they acted as a block slowing promotion down for everyone below them. Although action was taken to resolve this by abolishing brigadier general and introducing in its place colonel commandant (other colonels termed ‘colonel on the staff’), it took two decades to unstick things and there were a great many officers stuck at subaltern at a ridiculous age in the mid 1930s. So much of a problem was this that it was debated in Parliament and recorded in Hansard. See: https://hansard.parliament.uk/Common...cers(Promotion)

You make a good point about the khaki cover for officers forage caps too. In 1900 the cap previously referred to as naval or staff pattern became the new universal forage cap and replaced the old round forage cap that had been introduced in 1880, but previously existed within the Guards as far back as the 1850s. When the new drab khaki serge service dress was introduced in 1902, following lessons learned during the 2nd Boer War, the matter of a cap for wear with it had been rather overlooked and the initial solution was decreed as a khaki cap cover to fit closely over the top, but not to obscure the cap band, as the colour of the latter was a descriptor showing Royal association and often corps / function too. In essence they were a khaki version of the white cap cover that was formalised in 1904.

It is especially common to see the khaki covers on the caps of general officers in the period between 1902 and 1916. Sometimes the covers were deeper covering the band and the chinstrap, reflecting the variety that was on offer to officers via their outfitters. It wasn’t until 1905 that an all-khaki cap not requiring a cover was introduced, and then thoughout WW1 the varieties of SD cap became quite bewildering as the many and various outfitters competed with unique selling points in what became a very competitive market. Of course this latter type of cap passed all of the Scottish regiments by, as they had instead adopted for wear with field dress the glengarry [initially] and then the Balmoral bonnet so as to chime with the Tam-o-Shanter of the men. A good example of the officers universal forage cap of Lowland Scots pattern can be seen with a Royal Scots cap badge below.

Best wishes,

Toby (aka Frogsmile)

[Borderer]

Hi Toby,

Once again thank you for your very welcome and in depth reply into what has become an enlightening discussion.
I have attached a photograph of the Forage Cap held in the museum with the Khaki cover, I have also attached a photograph of the 1904 sealed pattern board, displaying the items to be worn by the officers and corresponding with the 1904 Officers Dress Regulations; note the very small last button on the board is the Cap Button for the Forage Cap, these are very rare, unlike the slightly larger Mess button above it on the board, which is circular and flat with the Royal Crest and initials KOSB.

Whereas the cap button again circular but oval with the Royal Crest and a different style of lettering of the regiments initials KOSB, I have one in my collection.

Finally, this is a rare photograph of 25th (The King's Own Borderers) Regiment of Foot, Officers taken circa 1862 wearing undress frock coats and the undress peaked forage cap with a large gilt brass 25 topped by the Royal Crest, the Royal Crest came in gilt-brass or embroidered, also a few officers in service dress one wearing The French-Pattern Shako, interestingly the officers are named in this and some went on to have illustrious careers.

Kind regards
Hiram

[Toby Purcell]

Originally Posted by Borderer

Hi Toby,

Once again thank you for your very welcome and in depth reply into what has become an enlightening discussion.
I have attached a photograph of the Forage Cap held in the museum with the Khaki cover, I have also attached a photograph of the 1904 sealed pattern board, displaying the items to be worn by the officers and corresponding with the 1904 Officers Dress Regulations; note the very small last button on the board is the Cap Button for the Forage Cap, these are very rare, unlike the slightly larger Mess button above it on the board, which is circular and flat with the Royal Crest and initials KOSB.

Whereas the cap button again circular but oval with the Royal Crest and a different style of lettering of the regiments initials KOSB, I have one in my collection.

Finally, this is a rare photograph of 25th (The King's Own Borderers) Regiment of Foot, Officers taken circa 1862 wearing undress frock coats and the undress peaked forage cap with a large gilt brass 25 topped by the Royal Crest, the Royal Crest came in gilt-brass or embroidered, also a few officers in service dress one wearing The French-Pattern Shako, interestingly the officers are named in this and some went on to have illustrious careers.

Kind regards
Hiram

Hello Hiram,

Thank you for your reply and the excellent images.

The chin strap button you mention was officially known as a gorget button from its usage on gorget tabs for those officers appointed to the staff and wearing gorget tabs. By 1934 some regiments had cleverly reduced costs by adding the same button to the vests (waistcoats) and cuffs of their mess jackets, which made them less expensive. The mess dress gorget size buttons were then used on the cap too for those regiments still wearing such caps which apparently made them cheaper due to the economy of scale. They were commonly sold in sets of six.

The photo of your officer group in 1862 is a perfect example of the earlier pattern of double breasted frock coat that had been so popular. There had also been a single breasted version in the 1830s that was worn with or without gilt shoulder scales according to the order of dress decreed. The forage cap is of course the earlier pattern that was replaced in 1880.

Best regards,

Toby

[Borderer]

Thanks you Toby,

Your knowledge is much appreciated, on the small mess button, the museum Forage cap has exactly as you pointed out, a small mess button on either side holding on the chin strap.

Kind regards

Hiram

[Toby Purcell]

As described earlier here is a very good example of the frock coat worn with diced forage cap by a Lowland Scots regimental officer, in this case an ADC of the RSF. Both, the caps and the frock coats were eventually abandoned as a cost savings measure.

[Alex Rice]

Hi Toby
Great photo, thanks for showing it. Glad to see he appears to be wearing the full size badge!
Cheers,
Alex

[Borderer]

Hi Toby,

Once again, Great Photograph of the Forage cap and Frock coat being worn by a Lowland Regimental officer as per dress regulation for Lowland Regiment Officers 1904. A rare photo of the period showing the RSF officer in the roll as an ADC in this form of dress.

Alex, there is no question about the full size cap badge being worn by the Lowland Regimental Officers in this form of dress as the Dress regulation stipulates that Collar Badges, Buttons on the Frock Coat and the Cap Badges are the same worn on the other forms of service dress.
There is no pattern small badge mentioned or illustrated in the 1904 and subsequent Officers Dress regulation for this headdress or any other service dress.
I would suspect that as officers purchase there official pattern uniforms and accoutrements from approved regimental tailors, there are, certainly in the KOSB, smaller pattern cap badges available, normally found on regimental trophies etc, That said, it would not be beyond the realm of possibility for an officers to wear one of these small badges on the forage cap, if his normal cap badge was a large Victorian Crown Pattern badge, and get away with it. Because, if the practice then was anything like when I served young officers used to share a pool of uniform items that were only ever worn on rare occasions, for example the Duty Officer could and did wear undress uniform for staff parade at 2200hrs, this was a Blue Patrol Jacket and these were shared within their mess, WO & Sgt's Mess members did the very same with BPJ.

Cheers
Hiram

[Paul Spellman]

I’m not sure what is meant by a full size badge on the RSF cap
Which badge is being referred too
Paul
Fur Cap, Glengarry or ToS or for the cap shown

[Toby Purcell]

Originally Posted by Alex Rice

Hi Toby
Great photo, thanks for showing it. Glad to see he appears to be wearing the full size badge!
Cheers,
Alex

I wonder what the policy was, it doesn’t look right on the cap does it. He wouldn’t be the first to wing it and use what he had. I had imagined that a collar badge might have been used if there was no special badge, as fusilier regiments had a past history of resorting to that. As Hiram says each regiment would have had its own internal dress regulations.

[Toby Purcell]

Originally Posted by Paul Spellman

I’m not sure what is meant by a full size badge on the RSF cap
Which badge is being referred too
Paul
Fur Cap, Glengarry or ToS or for the cap shown

He’s wearing the officers’ pattern badge for the glengarry cap.

[Paul Spellman]

Yes as does my example of a forage cap, i know there are smaller badges to the Regt for FSC’s so was a smaller badge also wore on these caps ? With regard to Alex’s comment
Paul

[Toby Purcell]

Originally Posted by Paul Spellman

Yes as does my example of a forage cap, i know there are smaller badges to the Regt for FSC’s so was a smaller badge also wore on these caps ? With regard to Alex’s comment
Paul

As mentioned I did think that a smaller badge was worn, but it seems not given the photo and your example. I know a collar badge was used on the other fusilier regiments FSC, often in bullion. Did the RSF use an FSC? I’d been under the impression the glengarry was worn in its stead.

[Paul Spellman]

I’d be very interested to see the smaller badge worn.
Yes they did have an FSC as did the HLI too
Paul