Royal Scots

[rob63]

I recently picked up a tunic with badges for the Royal Scots. Whatever anybody can tell me about any of it would be appreciated, but particularly anything that might help to date it. I have went over it with a fine tooth comb and there is no tailor's tag or any markings of any kind.

[Toby Purcell]

Post WW2 I think. The cloth is Guards Barathea, a later adoption (whipcord previously), and there’s no overlaid waistband as there was on the WW1 jackets. WW2 jackets were made under regulations minimising the use of expensive material under utilitarian rules. The bronze buttons are also later than WW1. All-in-all I’d say a post WW2 garment.

[Paul Spellman]

I’d really expect labels on an item like this or evidence of
Paul

[cbuehler]

Barathea was in fairly common use for OSD by the 1930s for all, not just Guards. The older whipcord continued into early WW2 as well. This OSD doublet could very well be WW2, but just as likely into the 1950s as previously mentioned. No way to be sure other than it is certainly not prior to WW2.
A very nice example.

CB

[Alan O]

As these tunics were worn until fairly recently I think it could be relatively modern. The fact the labels have been removed is a concern.

[Toby Purcell]

Barathea was not “in use for all”, each regiment made it’s own choice whether it wished to adopt it or not. The Royal Scots were one of the regiments that did elect to do so. The Guards barathea chosen by several regiments in emulation of the Guards was also a different, more brownish shade than was used by the Royal Scots during the world wars. It’s an important point that the specially bronzed buttons to match the collar badges are a much later development than the two world wars. Previously GM buttons were worn, but allowed to go dull. I enclose an inside view of a typical ww1 SD doublet. They were much heavier in construction with drab cotton lining throughout rather than bemberg, or similar. Labels were commonly on the inside of pockets whereas for tunics and blue patrols usually inside the collar.

Here is a fairly recent (pre Royal Regiment of Scotland) lieutenant colonel’s jacket for comparison: https://www.cetomilitaria.co.uk/ours...840C-335W.html
It comes from a similar period to your example.

[tonyb]

I found the label to this Royal Gloucestershire Hussars tunic, inside the inside pocket might be worth a look.
Tony.

[49lassiepen]

Tony beat me to it. -recently sold a mess jacket buyer complained no label as photos ,I told them to look in the inside pocket
David

[rob63]

Thanks to all for all of the information! I feel like I am taking a crash course in wool weaving techniques, constantly looking up terms that previously meant nothing to me. I am here to learn though, I really do appreciate it all.

I looked through the pockets for a tag again. Unfortunately, with the same results as previously.

If I am understanding everything correctly, it would appear to me that the consensus seems to be that it is likely post-WWII, up through mid-60's? Is it fair to say that it more likely from the 60's than from any other era?

I also feel like some comments have been somewhat cryptic, leaving me confused as to what was actually meant. Consequently, I think I should make it clear that I bought this jacket because I thought it was a nice example of a UK uniform. In other words, I just simply liked it. I paid next to nothing for it, less than what it costs to take my wife to dinner. It would be great if it was some rare valuable piece, but I wasn't expecting it to be anything in particular. I really meant it when I said I was simply looking for information, truly anything at all. I know next to nothing about any of this.

The link to the Ceto militaria website is really, really helpful! I am learning all kinds of things from it about UK uniforms. It was also great to see the jacket with the shirt, tie, and trousers. That gives me a much better idea of what the complete set should look like. Although it also kind of annoys me that I now realize there was a pair of those trousers in the auction that I shouldn't have passed up!

Thanks, Rob

[49lassiepen]

'' less than it costs to take my wife to dinners. '' -hopefully quite a bit less than £150 + as in U K regimental jackets can be had for as little of £25.00
David

[Toby Purcell]

Originally Posted by rob63

Thanks to all for all of the information! I feel like I am taking a crash course in wool weaving techniques, constantly looking up terms that previously meant nothing to me. I am here to learn though, I really do appreciate it all.

I looked through the pockets for a tag again. Unfortunately, with the same results as previously.

If I am understanding everything correctly, it would appear to me that the consensus seems to be that it is likely post-WWII, up through mid-60's? Is it fair to say that it more likely from the 60's than from any other era?

I also feel like some comments have been somewhat cryptic, leaving me confused as to what was actually meant. Consequently, I think I should make it clear that I bought this jacket because I thought it was a nice example of a UK uniform. In other words, I just simply liked it. I paid next to nothing for it, less than what it costs to take my wife to dinner. It would be great if it was some rare valuable piece, but I wasn't expecting it to be anything in particular. I really meant it when I said I was simply looking for information, truly anything at all. I know next to nothing about any of this.

The link to the Ceto militaria website is really, really helpful! I am learning all kinds of things from it about UK uniforms. It was also great to see the jacket with the shirt, tie, and trousers. That gives me a much better idea of what the complete set should look like. Although it also kind of annoys me that I now realize there was a pair of those trousers in the auction that I shouldn't have passed up!

Thanks, Rob

Hello Rob,
I would date your jacket to be from between 1960 and 2006, it did not change during that time. Here is a similar uniform for a lieutenant colonel of the regiment who as a junior officer served during ww2. https://www.militariazone.com/jacket...1#.ZHc4FKTMKEc

Do not worry too much about the absence of a label. Officers uniforms were made by a wide range of commercial tailors (each officer received a government grant to pay for service and mess dress during the period mentioned) and labelling varied. Also, because the Scottish Division still furnished public duties at castles and Royal Palaces in Scotland there were still regimental (soldier) tailors during the earlier decades of that time span and they too, could and did, occasionally make up uniforms that were not labelled like a commercial example.

[Alan O]

Originally Posted by rob63

Thanks to all for all of the information! I feel like I am taking a crash course in wool weaving techniques, constantly looking up terms that previously meant nothing to me. I am here to learn though, I really do appreciate it all.

I looked through the pockets for a tag again. Unfortunately, with the same results as previously.

If I am understanding everything correctly, it would appear to me that the consensus seems to be that it is likely post-WWII, up through mid-60's? Is it fair to say that it more likely from the 60's than from any other era?

I also feel like some comments have been somewhat cryptic, leaving me confused as to what was actually meant. Consequently, I think I should make it clear that I bought this jacket because I thought it was a nice example of a UK uniform. In other words, I just simply liked it. I paid next to nothing for it, less than what it costs to take my wife to dinner. It would be great if it was some rare valuable piece, but I wasn't expecting it to be anything in particular. I really meant it when I said I was simply looking for information, truly anything at all. I know next to nothing about any of this.

The link to the Ceto militaria website is really, really helpful! I am learning all kinds of things from it about UK uniforms. It was also great to see the jacket with the shirt, tie, and trousers. That gives me a much better idea of what the complete set should look like. Although it also kind of annoys me that I now realize there was a pair of those trousers in the auction that I shouldn't have passed up!

Thanks, Rob

I think it may be very modern indeed as it looks remarkably similar to Royal Scots officers that I knew were wearing prior to the RRS creation.

[cbuehler]

In my opinion, this doublet is not that recent. The insignia and buttons are all older and the button hole thread has an aged browned appearance as well as being hand sewn. There does not appear to be any polyester used in the construction. If this doublet proved to be any newer than 40 or 50 years ago, I would be very surprised.

CB

[Toby Purcell]

Originally Posted by Alan O

I think it may be very modern indeed as it looks remarkably similar to Royal Scots officers that I knew were wearing prior to the RRS creation.

Yes I agree entirely Alan. I had several Royal Scots officer colleagues at the School of Infantry, whose service dress was identical in construction and material and most commonly seen [by me] on Remembrance Sunday. I shared an office with one at Support Weapons Wing and we both hung our jackets up on hangers or on the back of our chairs whilst switching to a woollen pullover. I saw many more subsequently at the Pirbright All Arms Drill Wing. The shiny lining in particular is a more recent feature.

[cbuehler]

Indeed, you may all be correct in your assessment, but I must remain with mine.
Here are two examples of shiny viscose (rayon) linings from Bernard Weatherill in 1944.

CB