British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum

Recent Books by Forum Members

   

Go Back   British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum > British Military Insignia > Royal Artillery, Royal Engineers and Royal Signals.

 Other Pages: Galleries, Links etc.
Glossary  Books by Forum Members     Canadian Pre 1914    CEF    CEF Badge Inscriptions   Canadian post 1920     Canadian post 1953     British Cavalry Badges     Makers' Marks    Pipers' Badges  Canadian Cloth Titles  Books  SEARCH
 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 22-05-20, 05:52 PM
Wmr-RHB's Avatar
Wmr-RHB Wmr-RHB is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 926
Default What cap badges are used by RA Volunteers/TF?

As we all know the basic RA cap badge has as texts UBIQUE//QUO FAS/ET GLORIA/DUCUNT.

I have Gaylor here and it tells me that the volunteers from 1902-1908 (with designations ... Royal Garrison Artillery (Volunteers)) had white metal badges with VOLUNTEERS//QUO FAS/ET GLORIA/DUCUNT. He shows a few exceptions:
For the 1st Hampshire Royal Garrison Artillery (Volunteers) the text FIRST//HANTS/R.G.A/VOLUNTEERS.
For the 3rd Middlesex Royal Garrison Artillery (Volunteers) the text THIRD//MIDDLESEX/R.G.A./VOLUNTEERS.
But he does not say if this is exhaustive. Thus my first question: where there more of these special badges and when yes, which ones.

In 1908 all were reorganised in the Territorial Force. Until 1916 (when TF untis were also entitled to the standard badges) the designations were ... Brigade, Royal Field Artillery (TF) and the badge was laurel sprig//QUO FAS/ET GLORIA/DUCUNT. But
The former 3rd Middlesex RGA (V) became V London Brigade Royal Field artillery (TF) and the badge was FIFTH//LONDON/R.F.A/BRIGADE.
My second question: where there more of these?

Also from Gaylor: two batteries in the Mounted Brigades that also had special texts.
WARWICKSHIRE//ROYAL/HORSE/ARTILLERY
WEST RIDING//ROYAL/HORSE/ARTILLERY
Again: were there more?
__________________
Henk
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 22-05-20, 06:15 PM
manchesters's Avatar
manchesters manchesters is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Lancashire
Posts: 5,621
Default

Henk,

You basically have it correct with a few additions as follows:-

1. Volunteers had VOLUNTEER or VOLUNTEERS

2. A version exists with CADET on the top scroll

3. OXFORD UNIVERSITY OTC has a version with that titles on the lower scrolls.

4. Warwickshire RHA was only in bronze for officers.

5. There are two WEST RIDING badges, one RHA (TF) and one RFA (TF)

Now a word of caution -- DO NOT buy any of the named unit badges off ebay - NOT A SINGLE ONE is genuine.

regards
__________________
Simon Butterworth

Manchester Regiment Collector
Rank, Prize & Trade Badges
British & Commonwealth Artillery Badges
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 22-05-20, 06:41 PM
Wmr-RHB's Avatar
Wmr-RHB Wmr-RHB is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 926
Default

Thanks a lot for the quick reply and the extended information.

About your point 5. I have seen a picture of the second badge you mention there. It is W.RIDING//QUO FAS/ETGLORIA/DUCUNT. Thus it does not mention if it is for I, II, II or IV (Howitzer) Brigade (or 1st, 2nd.3rd, 4th Brigade, I am still not sure what the official designations are). Was this badge used by all four?

BTW, I do not plan to buy any badge. I am no collector, I am interested in lineage and see the badges as illustrations only, e.g. the two badges of the 3rd Middx and the 5th London illustrate their continuity. But, being around on these forums for some time already, I am sure that your advice is a sound one.
__________________
Henk
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 22-05-20, 09:44 PM
fairlie63's Avatar
fairlie63 fairlie63 is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Claremont, Tasmania
Posts: 1,111
Default

Hi Henk

About your point 5. I have seen a picture of the second badge you mention there. It is W.RIDING//QUO FAS/ETGLORIA/DUCUNT. Thus it does not mention if it is for I, II, II or IV (Howitzer) Brigade (or 1st, 2nd.3rd, 4th Brigade, I am still not sure what the official designations are). Was this badge used by all four?

Norman Litchfield shows this in his The Territorial Artillery 1908-1988 as being for 3 WR Bde RFA (TF). He does surmise it could have been worn by all the West Riding brigades but thinks from its scarcity and the fact that 3 WR Bde was evolved from 4 West Yorks RGA(V) which had a similar badge that only this unit wore it.

The W. RIDING badge is the only one I have not yet seen faked, probably because the fakers were confused by the WR RHA(TF) badge and didn't realise another WR badge existed. Simon's advice on the others on ebay is spot on.

Keep up the good work with your lineage.

Keith
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 23-05-20, 07:14 AM
Wmr-RHB's Avatar
Wmr-RHB Wmr-RHB is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 926
Default

Thanks a lot for this additional and very interesting information.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fairlie63 View Post
4 West Yorks RGA(V) which had a similar badge that only this unit wore it.
Does this mean that 4th West Riding of Yorkshire Royal Garrison Artillery (Volunteers) then would be an answer to my first question in my first post above, about there being more deviations then the two I mention there?
And when yes, what was the badge?

P.S.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fairlie63 View Post
Keep up the good work with your lineage.
Thanks for the compliments.
Does this mean that you know where to find them?
I will update them in due time, specially the Volunteer/TF/TA Artillery part. Still working on that, but far from complete due to missing reliable information.
__________________
Henk
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 23-05-20, 07:48 AM
fairlie63's Avatar
fairlie63 fairlie63 is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Claremont, Tasmania
Posts: 1,111
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wmr-RHB View Post



Does this mean that 4th West Riding of Yorkshire Royal Garrison Artillery (Volunteers) then would be an answer to my first question in my first post above, about there being more deviations then the two I mention there?
And when yes, what was the badge?
Hello Henk

Yes, the Norman Litchfield Collection contained an officers die-stamped silver-plated example with 4th W. RIDING in the top scroll and YORKSHIRE RGA VOLUNTEERS in the lower scrolls.

There was a similar example in his collection for the 1st West Riding RGA(V) with 1st W. RIDING in the top scroll, remainder as above.

It may be that the officers only of these corps wore special badges, the other ranks wearing just the normal badge with VOLUNTEERS/QUO FAS ET GLORIA DUCUNT.

I have seen your work previously in regard to Australian infantry.

Regards,
Keith
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 23-05-20, 07:55 AM
Wmr-RHB's Avatar
Wmr-RHB Wmr-RHB is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 926
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fairlie63 View Post
Hello Henk

Yes, the Norman Litchfield Collection contained an officers die-stamped silver-plated example with 4th W. RIDING in the top scroll and YORKSHIRE RGA VOLUNTEERS in the lower scrolls.

There was a similar example in his collection for the 1st West Riding RGA(V) with 1st W. RIDING in the top scroll, remainder as above.

It may be that the officers only of these corps wore special badges, the other ranks wearing just the normal badge with VOLUNTEERS/QUO FAS ET GLORIA DUCUNT.

I have seen your work previously in regard to Australian infantry.

Regards,
Keith
Thanks again for all this additional information. For my goal I prefer other ranks badges, thus I will leave that for the genuine collectors . But I will take note of this information so when I stumble into a picture of one I will understand what it is.
__________________
Henk
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 23-05-20, 09:25 AM
manchesters's Avatar
manchesters manchesters is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Lancashire
Posts: 5,621
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wmr-RHB View Post
Thanks a lot for the quick reply and the extended information.

About your point 5. I have seen a picture of the second badge you mention there. It is W.RIDING//QUO FAS/ETGLORIA/DUCUNT. Thus it does not mention if it is for I, II, II or IV (Howitzer) Brigade (or 1st, 2nd.3rd, 4th Brigade, I am still not sure what the official designations are). Was this badge used by all four?

BTW, I do not plan to buy any badge. I am no collector, I am interested in lineage and see the badges as illustrations only, e.g. the two badges of the 3rd Middx and the 5th London illustrate their continuity. But, being around on these forums for some time already, I am sure that your advice is a sound one.
Henk,
Can I recommend the following books that deal specifically with lineage and contain much of the information you require.

1. Lineage Book of British Land Forces 1660 - 1978, 2 volumes by J.B.M. Frederick 1984.

2. The Militia Artillery 1852 -1909, by Norman E.H. Litchfield, 1987

3. The Volunteer Artillery, Litchfield 1982

4. The Territorial Artillery 1908-1988 Litchfield 1992

regards
__________________
Simon Butterworth

Manchester Regiment Collector
Rank, Prize & Trade Badges
British & Commonwealth Artillery Badges
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 23-05-20, 09:36 AM
Wmr-RHB's Avatar
Wmr-RHB Wmr-RHB is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 926
Default

Thanks a lot. That will probably help much. I now rely on Wikipedia for the Artillery (for the Infantry I have Westlake and for the Mounted Rifles/Light Horse I have Carman). And of course for all on Regiments.org

I will certainly look into those and see if I can order them for a reasonable price.

Again, thanks for all the trouble token to help me with direct or indirect information.

Same of course for fairly63. Folks here are really helpful.

I hope I can pay something back with my lineage charts at The Regiments of ....
__________________
Henk
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 23-05-20, 09:42 AM
manchesters's Avatar
manchesters manchesters is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Lancashire
Posts: 5,621
Default

Henk,

Thats a fantastic and un believably detailed amount ow work.

I have briefly flicked through part of Lancashire which is my particular interest and it looks splendid.

Thank you.

You really need Fredericks books they will be invaluable to you.

regards
__________________
Simon Butterworth

Manchester Regiment Collector
Rank, Prize & Trade Badges
British & Commonwealth Artillery Badges
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 23-05-20, 09:48 AM
Wmr-RHB's Avatar
Wmr-RHB Wmr-RHB is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 926
Default

Thanks a lot for glancing through part of it. I really need some confirmation from time to time to confirm that I am doing something that is useful for at least a few people. And of course for corrections.

I am open for all comments. From typing errors to wrong contents, etc. Only so can it be improved.
__________________
Henk

Last edited by Wmr-RHB; 23-05-20 at 03:01 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 02-06-20, 01:11 PM
Wmr-RHB's Avatar
Wmr-RHB Wmr-RHB is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 926
Default

I was just thinking of taking a nap after lunch when The Volunteer Artillery 1859-1908 (Lichfield & Westlake) arrived!

So much detail. It will enable me to bring that area up-to -date in my pages: The Volunteer Artillery of the British Army

In other words, a lot of work to do. No nap or relaxing, Corona or not Corona.
__________________
Henk
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 08-06-20, 07:20 PM
Mike B Mike B is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: North West
Posts: 1,909
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wmr-RHB View Post
Thanks a lot. That will probably help much. I now rely on Wikipedia for the Artillery (for the Infantry I have Westlake and for the Mounted Rifles/Light Horse I have Carman). And of course for all on Regiments.org

I will certainly look into those and see if I can order them for a reasonable price.

Again, thanks for all the trouble token to help me with direct or indirect information.

Same of course for fairly63. Folks here are really helpful.

I hope I can pay something back with my lineage charts at The Regiments of ....

Henk - you are to be congratulated on the most fantastic archive of lineage I have ever seen in over 40 years researching. Obviously a lifetime's work for you. The presentation, detail etc is quite remarkable. I dipped into various areas of interest and found the links work superbly. Many thanks for sharing, and hoping you work gains the full recognition it deserves. I am delighted to have found so much information from a single link.
All the best
Mike
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 08-06-20, 08:09 PM
Wmr-RHB's Avatar
Wmr-RHB Wmr-RHB is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 926
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike B View Post
Henk - you are to be congratulated on the most fantastic archive of lineage I have ever seen in over 40 years researching. Obviously a lifetime's work for you. The presentation, detail etc is quite remarkable. I dipped into various areas of interest and found the links work superbly. Many thanks for sharing, and hoping you work gains the full recognition it deserves. I am delighted to have found so much information from a single link.
All the best
Mike
You make me blush

Thanks for all the praise. I need it specially today, because, for a reason I still do not understand, about 15 of my TA Artillery charts were empty a few hours ago. That is, not where you see them, but here on my developing site. I do of course have backups, but that only once a week and all the work of the last days is gone.

As you can read above I now have Litchfield (the second one also arrived) and I was very busy filling in the gaps and removing errors.

But your post above gives me the energy to repeat the work of last week .

BTW, feel free to use the charts as you like. Look at them, copy them, etc. I am not creating this for nobody to see it.

In fact, as I am already a bit older (ahem), I am more or less afraid that it will be lost after I walk under the streetcar or so. So someone who wants to mirror and/or inherit it would not be bad. But, apart from the ineterest in the subject, a bit of ICT (web-site) knowledge is preferred.

In any case, enjoy and spread the word.
__________________
Henk
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 09-06-20, 04:09 PM
Mike B Mike B is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: North West
Posts: 1,909
Default

Keep up the good work Henk - it is a grand legacy.
My IT Skills are pathetic, I can only wonder how a lot of this work is done.
Research is so rewarding in its own right - and the ability to retrieve that research is so important.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 10:35 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.