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  #16  
Old 22-12-13, 07:07 PM
REMEVMBEA1 REMEVMBEA1 is offline
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Whoops. double entry.

Last edited by REMEVMBEA1; 23-12-13 at 07:05 AM.
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  #17  
Old 22-12-13, 07:11 PM
REMEVMBEA1 REMEVMBEA1 is offline
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[QUOTE=Brigade Piron;232602]Personally I think provenance is anything reasonable, particularly if you have to actually ask for it from the seller. If I buy a normal badge and, after asking the seller after the auction, I get a reasonable answer (a non-descript NCO in a regular unit), I'm fully satisfied. 5 times out of 10 they simply say they don't know. However, I would never buy an item because of a claimed provenance, and appreciate that the same not true for high-end badges (i.e. SF bits).

I'm afraid I don't understand your reason for accepting that SF insignia was less likely to have genuine provenance than that of ordinary line regiments, in fact I would think the opposite as SF insignia is more demanded for some reason I haven't yet figured out.
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  #18  
Old 22-12-13, 07:20 PM
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[QUOTE=REMEVMBEA1;243528]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brigade Piron View Post
Personally I think provenance is anything reasonable, particularly if you have to actually ask for it from the seller. If I buy a normal badge and, after asking the seller after the auction, I get a reasonable answer (a non-descript NCO in a regular unit), I'm fully satisfied. 5 times out of 10 they simply say they don't know. However, I would never buy an item because of a claimed provenance, and appreciate that the same not true for high-end badges (i.e. SF bits).

I'm afraid I don't understand your reason for accepting that SF insignia was less likely to have genuine provenance than that of ordinary line regiments, in fact I would think the opposite as SF insignia is more demanded for some reason I haven't yet figured out.
It's quite straight forward -

Number of sf soldiers < number of regular soldiers
Demand for sf badges > demand for regular badges
So, price of sf badges > price of regular badges.

When the price is higher and the demand greater, I think you'd have to be more sceptical...
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  #19  
Old 27-12-13, 04:02 PM
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Would this group classify as having acceptable provenance?....


http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-53...item3a88cd1a3b
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  #20  
Old 27-12-13, 04:52 PM
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Not sure how that is any sort of provenance? It is a story, but not much more.
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  #21  
Old 27-12-13, 11:00 PM
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Fair enough. As many items with provenance seem to be.
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Last edited by cw2311; 27-12-13 at 11:05 PM.
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  #22  
Old 27-12-13, 11:36 PM
rhodesianmilitaria rhodesianmilitaria is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cw2311 View Post
Would this group classify as having acceptable provenance?....


http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-53...item3a88cd1a3b
It's provenance, it just might not be the entirely correct provenance. If he did embellish his record he wouldn't be the first and won't be the last.
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  #23  
Old 28-12-13, 01:21 AM
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Absolutely Peter,

A little research should clear up if he ďembellishedĒ or if there was simply some confusion with the widow who pawned it.

I have also managed to have a discussion with the ebay seller and he has agreed to get in contact with the widow for some clarification.

It would be pretty convincing if Mr. Moneypenny had prior service with both the 1st Can Para and the Victoria Rifles which happen to be the two items married up together in this group.

Time will tell.

Thank you for our comments.
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  #24  
Old 30-12-13, 11:58 PM
mtrpltpara mtrpltpara is offline
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Surely provenance is only down to the belief of the buyer that such is true. What one person would accept, another might reject.
EG, I have my Fathers WW2 medals, I also have a piece of jagged metal which is part of a German mortar bomb, several pieces of which wounded him in action at Salerno. At some point they will move on, but who would believe the story?
I actually know it is true because I pulled this metal from his back as a teenager 44 years ago, when it had worked to the surface.
As I say, in the future, it's all down to belief
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  #25  
Old 31-12-13, 12:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtrpltpara View Post
Surely provenance is only down to the belief of the buyer that such is true. What one person would accept, another might reject.
EG, I have my Fathers WW2 medals, I also have a piece of jagged metal which is part of a German mortar bomb, several pieces of which wounded him in action at Salerno. At some point they will move on, but who would believe the story?
I actually know it is true because I pulled this metal from his back as a teenager 44 years ago, when it had worked to the surface.
As I say, in the future, it's all down to belief
Regards,
Bill.
But that's the same with everything. Just because a person doesn't believe the provenance is genuine it doesn't change the provenance. This biggest problem I see is the knowledge that some people have that is not written down or even in the public arena because when they're gone the knowledge will also be gone.
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  #26  
Old 31-12-13, 12:30 AM
mtrpltpara mtrpltpara is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rhodesianmilitaria View Post
But that's the same with everything. Just because a person doesn't believe the provenance is genuine it doesn't change the provenance. This biggest problem I see is the knowledge that some people have that is not written down or even in the public arena because when they're gone the knowledge will also be gone.
Agreed, but if people don't believe the provenance then it actually has no meaning.
Bill.
Actually you have just given me an idea, I am going to braise the piece of shrapnel to the front of my Fathers Italy star, that will make someone think in years to come.
Bill.

Last edited by mtrpltpara; 31-12-13 at 12:45 AM. Reason: Further thought
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  #27  
Old 31-12-13, 02:14 AM
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Yikes Bill!! If you have to do that, perhaps braise the shrapnel to the back of the star!?
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  #28  
Old 31-12-13, 02:24 AM
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Valid points Bill,

I guess you’re correct with having faith, or trusting your source. Even if you have a letter or photograph from the vet, the next question by some collectors would then be, is the letter or photo really from the vet? Further to that point, collectors even question if veteran himself is ‘embellishing’ or if this is really that item, etc...


Take this smock for example. This belonged to Private Allan Morley. Yes, it looks like a piece of crap that should have been thrown in the garbage, but I think it’s a pretty cool piece of crap. Mr. Morley was a sniper with the 1st Canadian Parachute Battalion. He wore this smock on D-day and the remainder of the war. Luckily for me, Mr. Morley was a hoarder and literally kept everything from the war. I have a fairly complete group of stuff that all belonged to him, so I am confident. However, I don’t have any eye witnesses who can attest to him wearing this smock on D-day, nor do I have any pictures of him wearing this smock during the war. So, there we are, perhaps just a story with no way of validating it.

Cheers
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