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#31
11-06-08, 05:19 PM
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eyelets/lugs/blades
Hi, I have spoken several times, to various people about bronze badges and I have been helped on numerous occasions, by people like Malc, if what he has said is being disputed, does it mean that the badges I am now showing, are in fact all cap badges because they are the same size ??? I can not go on expressing my ignorance but each time I get something straight in my head, someone else comes along and confuses me again.
 A good pointer for sizes of collar badges, is Colin Churchill's History of the British Army Infantry Collar Badge on most bronze badges, the size is indicated and can not, IMO, be mistaken but who am I ??? Dave. 
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#32
11-06-08, 05:28 PM
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Dave,
You have posted 3 sets of cap badges with their respective collar badges. Regardless of other posts - OSD cap badges have blades and collar badges have lugs. Keep this in mind and you won't go wrong. STM.
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#33
11-06-08, 05:33 PM
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Dave,
My opinion is that you have there a few very nice cap and collar sets there. I wouldn't worry too much opinions tend to differ due to human nature and collecting experiences but I still believe blades for cap badges and loops for collars as a rule of thumb. Luke
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#34
11-06-08, 06:33 PM
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Quote:
Youre not the only one  Malc/Luke, thanks for taking a look - I thought it was probably a collar. I'll be on the look out for a badge with blades! I'm going with cap - blades, collar loops/lugs (then hopefuly I can't go wrong  Thanks for all the contributions.
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#35
12-06-08, 01:26 PM
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There seems to be some confusion with blades and lugs - They are NOT the same thing and never have been.
Below is an attempt at clarification. 1 - Official term - Unknown. (At Present). Collectors term - Blades. (and less commonly as - 'Tangs') 2 - Official term - Loops. Collectors term - Lugs. 3 - Official term - Vertical Shank. Collector's term - Slider. To clarify point 2, because of differences in type - If it needs a pin to secure it, it is a LOOP or a LUG, whichever one you are happiest to use. The pictures below represent each of the 3 points above and are from left to right in that order. And just to add, the terms 'Fixing eyes' and Fixing rings or eyelet's' are not collector's terms, they are used by ebay seller's who haven't got a bloody clue about cap badge collecting and are usually selling off a relative's collection. STM. Last edited by Saddle tree maker; 12-06-08 at 01:41 PM.
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#37
12-06-08, 03:41 PM
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Quote:
CB
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#38
12-06-08, 05:15 PM
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Quote:
I understood blades to be the fixing for OSD cap badges having pointed ends whereas tangs have a rounded end and were the method of fixing present on WW2 economy plastic badges. Luke
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#39
12-06-08, 06:23 PM
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To be honest Luke, I've always called both of these fittings (OSD + Plastic) - Blades. I personally don't know anyone who calls anything tang's - In order to try and be a bit 'factual' and not get caught out, I actually nicked part of KLR's post. . .
" I've also heard them referred to as tang's " from earlier in the thread  Oh well, another lesson learnt. I remember the days when cap badge collecting seemed so much easier !  STM. PS. If I change it members won't understand what your post is about, so I'll leave it in.
Last edited by Saddle tree maker; 12-06-08 at 08:56 PM. Reason: Word change: Post to thread.
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#40
12-06-08, 07:18 PM
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Quote:
Badge in question is an Officers Service Dress.I have never seen that type of fixing on Other Ranks Badge. Hwyl Bantam
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#41
12-06-08, 07:21 PM
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I totally agree with Saddle Tree Maker on this point and do not understand where this reference to 'lugs' for 'blades' comes from. MHS or not, this is shear ignorance.
Further, I note the reference from Luke as to 'tangs' for WW2 plastic badges and have seen this utilised many times. Come on, common sense can differentiate between the basics. Last edited by 41st; 12-06-08 at 07:24 PM. Reason: Mistake
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#42
12-06-08, 08:30 PM
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I have the same double bladed fixing on my Royal Military Academy OSD.
Malc
__________________
http://www.watlingmilitaria.com/ Imagination is more important than knowledge. For while knowledge defines all we currently know and understand, imagination points to all we might yet discover.
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#43
12-06-08, 08:38 PM
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Malc,
My uncle has an EviiR RE vols with those double blades, as you know I'm not 'that up' on all things OSD but I can't figure out the purpose of the double blades? were they intended to be fixed to the cap differently than standard single blades - if so how? and what were they worn on - standard cap (then why make double blades when single would suffice)? I noticed that they tend to be slimmer than standard blades is this of any significance. I've also wondered if they were supposed to be splayed out like a butterfly pin for attachment. Cheers for any info/help Luke
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#44
12-06-08, 08:46 PM
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Oficer's badges
Interesting reading- can I add to the mix:
a) What about the use on the GS cap & beret by officers & OR's of badges with 'split-pin fittings' in lieu of those with sliders. The potential to lose badges when fitted with sliders brought this about I believe. b) In 1915/15 the shortage of uniforms necessitated the wearing of whatever was available. I have seen photographic evidence of Northants Yeo troopers wearing the opposite facing collar badge as a cap badge. It wasn't that the negative had been reversed as the 'white horse' faced both ways on different Trooper's caps. The same probably happened with officers. c) What about the use of the small RA Grenade Bakelite both as a head-dress badge and as a collar badge (albeit unofficially) d) There are many examples of Officer's silver, gilt badges which have 'split-pin fittings' that are longer than the identical collar badge. e) I am aware that when officer's badges broke or rankers were Commissioned in the field,whilst serving in remote theatres, OR's badges were pressed into service having been painted bronze. Why couldn't Officers have utilised spare collar dogs? Something to chew over. Steve.
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#45
12-06-08, 09:12 PM
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De Ja Vue'
I have a funny feeling i have contributed to this argument before somewhere else.... be that as it may!!
Attached is a pic of a 'sealed pattern' card in the QDG museum. The badge has loops, lugs, split pin fixings, eyelets, call them what you will. You can see from the original 1902 scribbling that it was used as both a cap and collar badge. In fairness though, the Bays Officers very soon jettisonned that badge for one with blades, tangs, prangs!! and pretty soon after that (about the time of the Boer War) started wearing the smaller pattern badge in both cap and collar. The interesting thing is; if you inspect the Officers SD uniforms in the museum you will find collar badges in caps as well as collars and cap badges (with blades) in collars.... Very much like todays Officers, they pretty much did as they pleased.... and seemed to put in place whatever came to hand..... Don't die in a ditch on this subject boys
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