British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum

Recent Books by Forum Members

   

Go Back   British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum > Common Forums > Reproductions, Restrikes, Fakes, Forgeries, and Copies

 Other Pages: Galleries, Links etc.
Glossary  Books by Forum Members     Canadian Pre 1914    CEF    CEF Badge Inscriptions   Canadian post 1920     Canadian post 1953     British Cavalry Badges     Makers' Marks    Pipers' Badges  Canadian Cloth Titles  Books  SEARCH
 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 07-06-23, 02:27 AM
woronora woronora is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 289
Default LRDG badge opinions

Hi

I would be very grateful for members' opinions on the genuineness of this LRDG badge.

Cheers

John
Attached Images
File Type: jpg LRDG 1.jpg (32.2 KB, 193 views)
File Type: jpg LRDG 2.jpg (33.0 KB, 161 views)
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 07-06-23, 04:59 AM
Luke H's Avatar
Luke H Luke H is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Londoner in exile
Posts: 5,651
Default

Congratulations, a genuine badge.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 07-06-23, 09:11 AM
popskipa's Avatar
popskipa popskipa is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 1,068
Default

Yes it looks to be an original LRDG headdress badge
__________________
I collect badges and medals of London Transport employees and it's predecessor and successor companies, bus, tram, trolleybus, underground railway. In addition the badges of Allied Special Forces units from the 1939-1945 war
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 07-06-23, 10:44 AM
arrestingu arrestingu is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: uk
Posts: 2,081
Default

A good one.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 07-06-23, 11:58 AM
Mike B Mike B is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: North West
Posts: 2,512
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by arrestingu View Post
A good one.
Thumbs up - and a hand clap - well done ...

Last edited by Mike B; 08-06-23 at 10:00 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 07-06-23, 10:27 PM
woronora woronora is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 289
Default

A heart felt thanks to all those who commented on the originality of the badge - very reassuring.

Cheers

John
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 08-06-23, 12:34 PM
Hoot Hoot is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,650
Default

For the life of me I can't fathom the logic behind that particular badge being the genuine article and the multitude of others that have appeared on the forum over the years being written off as duds. Yes it has the gap between the tail and leg, yes it has the raised lip to the circle, yes it has the cavity to the rear of the scorpion but then, so have plenty of the others that have been viewed on here but which have been trashed. Assuming these badges were theatre made and varied in detail how is the badge in the opening post considered genuine?. It puzzles me as to how anyone can declare any of these badges to be the genuine article given the circumstances of their production.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 08-06-23, 05:53 PM
Luke H's Avatar
Luke H Luke H is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Londoner in exile
Posts: 5,651
Default

The above badge is one of the so-called Quartermasters store types many of these were sold unissued ex David Lloyd Owen. If you search the name on here all should become clearer as there’s a few threads with a bit of background.

I do not believe they were made in theatre but are wartime.

Do you have any examples of the badges you refer to Hoot and I can have a look, admittedly I’m no expert?

There are at present an increasing number of Marsh and other ‘touching tail’ fakes doing the rounds which have deliberately and strategically been altered presumably with a fine hacksaw to liberate their once touching appendages in order to deceive. On several I’ve seen recently the outer raised edge and iffy seeding has also been ground off to add to the effect.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 08-06-23, 06:38 PM
Hoot Hoot is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,650
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke H View Post
The above badge is one of the so-called Quartermasters store types many of these were sold unissued ex David Lloyd Owen. If you search the name on here all should become clearer as there’s a few threads with a bit of background.

I do not believe they were made in theatre but are wartime.

Do you have any examples of the badges you refer to Hoot and I can have a look, admittedly I’m no expert?

There are at present an increasing number of Marsh and other ‘touching tail’ fakes doing the rounds which have deliberately and strategically been altered presumably with a fine hacksaw to liberate their once touching appendages in order to deceive. On several I’ve seen recently the outer raised edge and iffy seeding has also been ground off to add to the effect.
Thanks Luke. No, I don't have any LRDG badges and at current prices I never will have but it's all a bit strange to me. For a unit that existed for just five years and apparently never at any time numbered more than 350 all ranks the number of badges around is ridiculous. I know about Marsh and his goings-on and all the other chancers out there but these particular badges are in a league of their own. The point is, with most of the men who wore these badges now no longer around, nobody knows for certain which badges are right and which are not. To be honest I wouldn't touch any of them.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 09-06-23, 06:39 AM
atillathenunns's Avatar
atillathenunns atillathenunns is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Wellington, New Zealand
Posts: 1,428
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoot View Post
Thanks Luke. No, I don't have any LRDG badges and at current prices I never will have but it's all a bit strange to me. For a unit that existed for just five years and apparently never at any time numbered more than 350 all ranks the number of badges around is ridiculous. I know about Marsh and his goings-on and all the other chancers out there but these particular badges are in a league of their own. The point is, with most of the men who wore these badges now no longer around, nobody knows for certain which badges are right and which are not. To be honest I wouldn't touch any of them.
Just to be clear, 350 would only cover just the New Zealanders that served with the LRDG, and over the 5 years of war, the brass LRDG hat badge that was designed by Gunner CO 'Bluey' Grimsey was first issued in 1942.

However, in the short time the LRDG badge was officially issued, there seems to be two early issue die stamped variations, a final issue die cast variation and several cast sub variations.

David Llyod Owen at the end of the war was given the remaining badges from the LRDG QM stores, and a few years back his son sold them off. All of the LRDG Stores cap badges were die cast suggesting these were last variation to be issued to the LRDG.

From a New Zealand perspective, the die cast LRDG badges were once the rarest of the prefered variations, but since the flood of LRDG Stores badges it is now IMO the most commonest of genuine LRDG to turn up for sale, and without provenance most likely to have never been issued.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 09-06-23, 11:59 AM
Luke H's Avatar
Luke H Luke H is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Londoner in exile
Posts: 5,651
Default

To echo Atilla’s informative post.

I genuinely believe the above badge is of wartime manufacture, however, it is also very clear many of the above type were unissued.

Whether one counts an unissued badge to such a unit as ‘genuine’ very likely has an element of subjectivity.

My personal view is most would count an unissued Victorian or WW1 era badge straight out the factory and into frame as genuine so why move that goalpost for the LRGD and a badge from their stores. Others may and no doubt will disagree.

As referred to there are the earlier Cario made badges. These are certainly not found in the numbers of the type above.

If one wants a badge that has certainly been issued and been for a ride around the North African deserts in 1942-43 then certainly you want provenance too.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 09-06-23, 03:22 PM
Skippy's Avatar
Skippy Skippy is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2021
Posts: 87
Default

Fascinating!

So an issue badge in unissued condition?? What is not to like!

Cheers......John
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 10-06-23, 06:10 AM
atillathenunns's Avatar
atillathenunns atillathenunns is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Wellington, New Zealand
Posts: 1,428
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke H View Post
To echo Atilla’s informative post.

I genuinely believe the above badge is of wartime manufacture, however, it is also very clear many of the above type were unissued.

Whether one counts an unissued badge to such a unit as ‘genuine’ very likely has an element of subjectivity.

My personal view is most would count an unissued Victorian or WW1 era badge straight out the factory and into frame as genuine so why move that goalpost for the LRGD and a badge from their stores. Others may and no doubt will disagree.

As referred to there are the earlier Cario made badges. These are certainly not found in the numbers of the type above.

If one wants a badge that has certainly been issued and been for a ride around the North African deserts in 1942-43 then certainly you want provenance too.
Proof of purchase before the DLO Store badges came on the market would act as provenance as to having been issued.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

mhs link

All times are GMT. The time now is 04:59 PM.


Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2023, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.