British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum

Recent Books by Forum Members

   

Go Back   British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum > British Military Insignia > Royal Artillery, Royal Engineers and Royal Signals.

 Other Pages: Galleries, Links etc.
Glossary  Books by Forum Members     Canadian Pre 1914    CEF    CEF Badge Inscriptions   Canadian post 1920     Canadian post 1953     British Cavalry Badges     Makers' Marks    Pipers' Badges  Canadian Cloth Titles  Books  SEARCH
 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 19-10-11, 12:33 PM
dyse's Avatar
dyse dyse is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Bromley, Kent
Posts: 51
Default Royal Malta Artillery

Hi all,

Hopefully someone can put me out of my misery... I've been told different stories, but so far no-one has been able to prove the exact age of these RMA items:
1) cloth shoulder titles
2) cap badge (top centre)

I presume the middle RMA cap badge is for wear on beret - can anyone confirm?

The partly gilded cap badge on the right is slightly domed and constructed of four parts: cross, canon+scroll, wheel, crown. Is this a helmet badge or officer's (or both)?

As you can see, one item is missing... would love to complete the set of metal shoulder titles - anyone got one going spare?



Thanks in advance guys!

Mike
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 19-10-11, 04:23 PM
badjez's Avatar
badjez badjez is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Hervey Bay QLD Australia
Posts: 2,438
Default Royal Malta Arty

I cannot assist re the information you want, but the missing title 'RMA' was also used by the Royal Military Academy, Sandhurst.

Do you have a specimen of the 'plastic' gun badge?

Stephen.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 20-10-11, 08:03 AM
dyse's Avatar
dyse dyse is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Bromley, Kent
Posts: 51
Default

Hi Stephen,

Thanks for your reply - some say that the title could also be Royal Marine Artillery (I missed out on one on eBay because it was listed as such) but sources on Malta have said the curved one is Malta Artillery.

The search continues!...

Cheers,
Mike
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 20-10-11, 08:47 PM
fougasse1940's Avatar
fougasse1940 fougasse1940 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 3,206
Default

According to Westlake's "Collecting Metal Shoulder titles" book the Royal Marine Artillery wore a straight title. The curved titles were Royal Military Academy, but also worn by Royal Malta Artillery.
If I read Westlake correctly The Royal Military College Sandhurst wore a R.M.C. shoulder title until amalgamation with the Royal Military Academy Woolwich in 1947, and in 1951 a new shoulder title RMAS was introduced.
Which suggests the R.M.A. title was only worn Ca. 1947-1951 by the Academy.
I suppose the Royal Malta Artillery might have worn the shoulder title over a longer period of time.

I go along with the beret badge and officer's badge, and as previously indicated you're missing the extremely rare plastic badge.

Rgds,
Thomas.

Last edited by fougasse1940; 20-10-11 at 08:56 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 20-10-11, 09:10 PM
54Bty's Avatar
54Bty 54Bty is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: London, England
Posts: 6,272
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fougasse1940 View Post
and as previously indicated you're missing the extremely rare plastic badge. Thomas.
Also missing is the printed version of the shoulder designation and a few Formation badges.

Marc
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 21-10-11, 10:08 AM
dyse's Avatar
dyse dyse is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Bromley, Kent
Posts: 51
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 54Bty View Post
Also missing is the printed version of the shoulder designation and a few Formation badges.

Marc
Indeed! It would be great to lay my hands on the other formation badges too but a printed shoulder designation? Didn't know that existed... Do you have a photo showing such example?
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 21-10-11, 11:38 AM
54Bty's Avatar
54Bty 54Bty is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: London, England
Posts: 6,272
Default

Here are mine. Added a few more for you.

Marc

Last edited by 54Bty; 09-02-22 at 05:32 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 06-11-11, 10:54 AM
Brian Conyngham's Avatar
Brian Conyngham Brian Conyngham is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Durban South Africa
Posts: 1,238
Default RMA Badge

Mike

The top middle "round" RMA badge dates back to the Edward VII period. I have a fantastic old book although it is missing its cover, of army badges from that period. It was officially printed by the army for dress codes and also gives uniform prices of the day and that pattern badge features in it. (the book was thrown out in the late 1970's from a local old colonial unit as "we don't need this junk"!

However not sure if it is a lug or slider version?

When were sliders first introducted?

Hope this info assists?

Brian
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 10-11-11, 01:58 PM
Brian Conyngham's Avatar
Brian Conyngham Brian Conyngham is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Durban South Africa
Posts: 1,238
Default

Mike

Here are some pics from the old book, please excuse the odd hole or two in the pages .....due to bookworms whilst at the regiment!

I have also included a few other pics for those interested in Engineers and RA uniforms etc

Brian
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 1 1904 British Officer Dress Regulations.jpg (85.9 KB, 27 views)
File Type: jpg 2 1904 British Officer Dress Regulations.jpg (57.3 KB, 28 views)
File Type: jpg 3 1904 British Officer Dress Regulations.jpg (92.4 KB, 21 views)
File Type: jpg 4 1904 British Officer Dress Regulations.jpg (52.6 KB, 21 views)
File Type: jpg 5 1904 British Officer Dress Regulations Appenx 1 page 72.jpg (89.3 KB, 18 views)
File Type: jpg 6 1904 British Officer Dress Regulations Appenx 1 page 73.jpg (93.3 KB, 19 views)
File Type: jpg 7 1904 British Officer Dress Regulations.jpg (81.8 KB, 25 views)
File Type: jpg 8 1904 British Officer Dress Regulations.jpg (35.2 KB, 74 views)
File Type: jpg 9 1904 British Officer Dress Regulations.jpg (36.8 KB, 35 views)
File Type: jpg 10 1904 British Officer Dress Regulations.jpg (31.7 KB, 17 views)
File Type: jpg 11 1904 British Officer Dress Regulations.jpg (64.4 KB, 13 views)
File Type: jpg 12 1904 British Officer Dress Regulations.jpg (28.4 KB, 14 views)
File Type: jpg 13 1904 British Officer Dress Regulations.jpg (93.6 KB, 13 views)
File Type: jpg 14 1904 British Officer Dress Regulations.jpg (96.0 KB, 15 views)
File Type: jpg 15 1904 British Officer Dress Regulations.jpg (77.5 KB, 16 views)

Last edited by Brian Conyngham; 10-11-11 at 02:06 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 09-02-12, 02:40 PM
ROYAL MALTA ARTILLERY ROYAL MALTA ARTILLERY is offline
New Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 1
Default

Dear Sir

I was surfing yesterday on internet when I came across this forum. When I read about your questions I felt I could not resist registering to become a member so as to be able to solve your mystery.

I can reply with certainty as I come from the Island were those badges come from. More over, I have relatives who served in Maltese regiments during the war.

So here it comes:

Top middle: Is an R.M.A. (Royal Malta Artillery cap badge) as worn by other ranks on their forage caps and at times on the cork helmets over a squarish regimental flash. This badge was used during WW1 but abolished before WW2.
A similar badge was used from late 1800s prior to WW1 during the reign of Queen Victoria. The only difference was that it had the Victorian instead of the George crown.

Top sides: These are shoulder titles a used by the RMA during WW2 on their battle dresses. At times they were removed as the regiment used also slip-on titles containing an abbreviation RMA (black letters) embroidered on the same greenish brown material of the battle dress.

Far left crosses: These are an example of regimental formations as used by the RMA during WW2 worn on the sleeves. If they have red tin border around the cross then they are Heavy Unit Aircraft. With yellow tin border would be Light Unti Aircraft.

Far right crosses: Same as the above. However I believe that red and blue signified Costal Artillery.

Middle small RMA: Is a quite rare example of the RMA cap badge worn on the garrison cap during WW2. This particular badge was made of one piece brass.

Middle right: Is the normal size WW2 RMA cap badge as worn by officers on their visor hat, usually gilded.

Middle left: Is the normal size WW2 RMA cap badge worn by other ranks on their visor hat or garrison cap. The red cloth backing is something I have never seen before though. These type of badge were at times worn until the 1950s, subsequently were replaced by the queens crown version, both in brass or stay bright.

Bottom middle: These of collar tabs as worn by other ranks on their Blue patrols. If they are made of brass they are WW2, but if made of stay bright then they are post war.

The last but not least: R M A brass badge (half circle):

To the contrary of what some other members have been speculating. This is indeed Maltese RMA shoulder title. It matches the cap badge at the very top. These type of badges were used by other ranks during WW1 as well at times during WW2 on the 4 pocket khaki tunic with chinese collar.

Additional info:

During the times when Malta was part of the British empire there were 2 Maltese regiments, Artillery and Infantry.

Artillery:

RMFA = Royal Malta Fencible Artillery, circa 1850s.
RMA = Royal Malta Artillery, late 1800s till 70s.

Infantry:

MM = Malta Militia, 1852 till 1855 approx. Lasted for only 2 to 3 yrs then it was changed to :

RMM = Royal Malta Militia late 1800s

RMRM = Royal Malta Regiment of Militia turn of the century.

KOMR = Kings Own Malta Regiment WW2 Till post war.


I hope you find this information helpful. I have tried to cram as much as possible in a short message. But surely there is much more to discover. Should you have any question please do not hesitate to ask me. I will do my best.

Kind regards
Raymond.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 10-02-12, 08:56 AM
dyse's Avatar
dyse dyse is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Bromley, Kent
Posts: 51
Default

Hello Raymond,

Wonderful chunk of info there - certainly answered a lot of questions and some added info too, thank you!

I've acquired more bits 'n' bobs since starting this thread so I'll be posting a new pic on here soon for us all to ponder over and share thoughts.

Cheers,
Mike
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 18-02-12, 10:05 AM
button_guru
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Royal Malta Artillery badges

Hello lads,
Just to add some more details to what has been discussed above:
1…..The RMA uniform and badge details shown by Brian must be circa 1904 as the badge is in King’s (Tudor) Crown, and was changed that year when the Duke of Cambridge was in Malta during his tour and was made Honorary Colonel of the Regiment. There’s a facsimile edition of the 1900 Dress Regulations by WY Carman which shows the previous puggri round ‘penny’ badge in Imperial (flat-topped) Crown.
2…..The Royal Malta Artillery printed titles with RMA first came to be around the time of the BD. I’ve seen versions with just the title as shown, RMA printed on light khaki, and even one with an officer’s rank. I can’t vouch whether it was one-piece or the RMA were sewn on the pips’ section.
3…..The curved RMA brass shoulder titled also came with the BD. In May 1930, an artillery ‘7 flamed’ grenade was introduced and in 1937, the new ‘gun and cross’ RA type badge’ with motto and the grenades with MALTA scrolls were introduced.
4…..With the BD also came the small RA brass grenades and field guns above the Sergeants’ and S/Sgts’ chevrons, as well as brass and worsted Proficiency Badges for Lewis Gunner, Loader, Marksman, etc.
5…..As for the ROYAL MALTA ARTILLERY, red on blue curved cloth titles, sorry chaps, but these are a post-war issue. Only the printed RMA were worn then.
6…..The Divisions Signs crosses and Service Strips as worn by the RA were also worn by the RMA, with the printed title to show the distinction. See photo attached from my good friends’ website www.maltacommand.com, which tells it all. A site which I highly recommend. Keep in mind that there was a shortage of such items and the Maltese were more busy fighting and manning the guns than their proper dress order.
7.....Service Strips colours were also painted on the 'Malta stone' camo steel helmet but not neccessarily in the exact shape as those on the BD.
8…..Good references: Other to the website, there are two excellent books, the first being out of print and a collector’s item.
HISTORY OF THE ROYAL MALTA ARTILLERY, VOL. 1 (1800-1939), Brig. A. Samut-Tagliaferro, 1974, Malta. and
HISTORY OF THE KING’S OWN MALTA REGIMENT AND THE ARMED FORCES OF THE ORDER OF ST. JOHN, Capt. J.M. Wismayer, 1984, Malta. The latter may still be found.
Regds,
button_guru
Attached Images
File Type: jpg RMA Dress WWII.jpg (69.5 KB, 26 views)
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 18-02-12, 10:12 AM
button_guru
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Royal Malta Artillery badges

p.s.
The small all brass KC badge is also a post-war issue for which I need to check the date. The RMA still wore the side cap till the end of the war and the beret was only introduced post-war. The King's Own Malta Regiment wore a bulky tan beret then and later both changed to the dark blue.
In 1953, an all brass QC beret badge was introduced for the RMA's ORs' beret but was withdrawn while still only a few were issued.
Rgds,
button-guru
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 26-10-16, 08:45 AM
Alan O's Avatar
Alan O Alan O is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 12,627
Default

http://www.maltaramc.com/imgregts/mltbadges.pdf

I was looking to date the changeover from the RMA 'penny' cap badge to the full gun version and came across this excellent article online.

The answer was 1937 by the way.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
artillery, malta

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

mhs link

All times are GMT. The time now is 11:00 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.