Denbighshire Hussars

[GriffMJ]

Here is an interesting badge, this is a J&Co badge that is cast. It has a period pin and clasp with a loop and base plate at the top? I think its a gilt finish (possibly a wash)? It looks cap curved..... but the pin & clasp would be a bit clumsy in the cap?

[GriffMJ]

DHIY Officers felt cap badge, cast gilding metal & gilt washed. Constructed with a top loop for securing chain. The pin and clasp were an original fitting .....as there is gilt wash still on the pin.
Maker: Jennens & Co

[GriffMJ]

some more detail after a deep clean... the pink areas are where the gilt has worn off. The badge is two part..... the scroll has been braised to the badge. The gilt wash has gathered and hardened between the ICH DIEN scroll and the DENBIGHSHIRE HUSSARS scroll.

[GriffMJ]

DHY Bronzed brass Other Ranks DHY (made by Firmin).... detail (note the dark chocolate colour).

[GriffMJ]

The DHIY Other ranks first issue Bronzed brass (1902)... with detail (note the milk chocolate colour)

[GTB]

A highly interesting thread but nothing is always clearcut and I would welcome the concensus of the experts as to whether the attached are DH or 15CL badges. I will leave out my conclusions for the moment

GTB

[Alan O]

Not forgetting Plymouth School OTC who the badge long after both regiments had gone. It is recorded in use at the OTC in 1938 as a black PofW feathers badge. Of whose design and what the fittings are unknown. EJ Martin's article on OTCs said Plymouth College wears 'exactly the same badge' as the 15th London regt.

http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/for...162#post401162

A picture of the badge being worn by Plymouth College OTC to back up E.J. Martin's article.

[GTB]

Originally Posted by Alan O

Not forgetting Plymouth School OTC who the badge long after both regiments had gone.

I think we're muddying the water here and the subject is complicated enough, but we can only give it a chance. If the above-mentioned OTC utilised one or other of the DH or 15CL badges then there is no problem. If badge struck using a new die then I would expect this to show up, so no prob again. And did the OTC badge have slider or lugs?

Never can tell where this hobby leads to.

GTB

[41st]

Lucky enough to pick up this bi-metal version recently, together with a regimental button from Bishops Castle which is in the heart of the recruiting area.

[Alan O]

Originally Posted by GTB

I think we're muddying the water here and the subject is complicated enough, but we can only give it a chance. If the above-mentioned OTC utilised one or other of the DH or 15CL badges then there is no problem. If badge struck using a new die then I would expect this to show up, so no prob again. And did the OTC badge have slider or lugs?

Never can tell where this hobby leads to.

GTB

No one knows as it's impossible to determine which die the school badges came from amongst the many 14 CofL badges. It was not a DH badge because they were a Rifles unit and their badges and buttons were blackened like the Londons and not bronzed like the DH.

[JerryBB]

another comprehensive thread on the subject.

I now have two DHY though they are different in some details, is that because one is the 1908 version and the other WWI version? Obviously one is bronzed and the other is black.

[Alan O]

Jerry
These are really tricky to date and distinguish. They could be RWxY, DH or 14th London with costings removed or the OTC.

Alan

[Luke H]

The simple answer is the DHY and RWY wore the same pattern badge, this is born out by the 1916 tenders. The 15th London also wore essentially the same pattern too.

I think as collectors we want black and white it’s X Regt when it truth it could also be Y Regt or even Z Regt. Unless you had an attribution or provenance of some kind attached to a specific badge there’s no way of knowing for sure.

RWY and DHY both wore SP No. 8675/16 in GM bronze in 1916 and in both cases prior to the war on khaki SD.

There is of course room for debate when it comes to finishes and period photos as to what die may be in wear by whom but ultimately that would not necessarily preclude the other.

I recall a very clear WW1 photo of those flat top plumes being worn by a DHY trooper so personally I’ve picked that badge to represent the DHY but that’s not to say the RWY (or even 15th London as it’s black) may not have been issued a batch of them too. Your polished badge could easily be either.

[cbuehler]

"I think as collectors we want black and white it’s X Regt when it truth it could also be Y Regt or even Z Regt. Unless you had an attribution or provenance of some kind attached to a specific badge there’s no way of knowing for sure."
Indeed, truer words have never been written!
I used to think that there must have been some distinction between the regiments which wore these badges, but the knowledge gleaned in recent years from contributors such as Luke have enlightened me.

CB

[JerryBB]

Thanks Alan, Luke and CB for commenting.

Both badges were bought from forum members as DHY, though the black badge always made me wonder if it was civil service rifles instead. Did the DHY wear a blackened badge?