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#16
23-10-10, 06:14 PM
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Gentleman,
many thanks for your replies both on and off line! Seems that there may be a small bit of confusion creeping in over Forage and Service Dress badges? The Khaki Service Dress Cap was worn with every day uniform/battle dress (WW1/2) and the Forage Cap for Dress occasions, in the case of Guards Regiments the Blue/black cap with polished and bullion embellished peak (Less Scots Guards who have/had diced headbands). The Forage Cap badges were/are all the larger size with the SD badge being around 50% smaller. Thanks also to those who think that I may have bid on a Dodo, I'm 1000000000000% happy that the badge shown above is 1000000000000000000% Genuine. Many thanks Andy 
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#17
11-11-10, 05:45 AM
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Quote:
from french ebay a picture of a machine gun guard with collars, but the welch guards cap badge  . (i think it is a WW1 picture, becausse the soft cap).http://cgi.ebay.fr/photo-soldat-brit...item1c16ff2162 Last edited by jeanpit-frenchy; 12-11-10 at 05:08 PM.
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#18
11-11-10, 09:22 AM
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A very interesting photo as he is clearly a Welshguardsman now serving with the Machine Gun Guards as his shoulder title shows. Interesting that he has Machine Gun Corps collars but is not wearing either of the cap badges worn by the Machine Gun Guards. These badges were introduced in 1916 and changed in 1918 so either this is a early photo before 1916 badges - and you would need to ask a uniform expert to confirm when the cloth titles came into use, or he has kept his old badge. The MG Guards were disbanded circa 1920 so it is a WW1 era (or just after) photo.
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#20
14-11-10, 05:57 AM
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Andy, sorry to go off topic, but I have an interest in NZMG badges and find the photo that Jeanpit has posted of great interest.
If I recall correctly the leak badge was authorised by the King on the 5th March 1915. The Service Dress (soft) cap was approved in March 1916 and issued in conjunction with the Steel helmet in May 1916. Brent
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#21
15-11-10, 01:21 AM
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Quote:
What a Great Photo! A few spelling corrections to the above Replies "Welsh" Guards (not Welch) and "Leek" (not Leak)... There could be umpteen reasons for him not displaying a MG Cap badge.. The Welsh Guards as already mentioned were formed in 1915. Prior to that Welshmen had served in the Grenadier Guards! Perhaps he was showing his family his newly acquired Leek? He appears to have been in a while having a Good conduct chevron? Perhaps the Cap badges were in short supply? The collars were the standard MGC patern so already in production? When the Welsh Guards were formed they wore their previous Regimental badge until replaced by the Leek when stocks were produced. Perhaps he was prouder to be a Welsh Guardsman than a Machine Gun Guard, a Modern unit with no regional identity? The list of possibles is endless.... Nevertheless a cracking photo! The lanyard puzzles me too, would this be a MGC embelishment? Andy
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#22
15-11-10, 03:24 AM
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Nevir waz tu gut it speling.
 Any idea when the Guards MG star badge was first authorised? Any idea when the Crossed MG badge was first authorised? Can anyone confirm that it was the 6th October 1915 that the King sanctioned the formation of the Machine Gun Corps? Cheers Brent
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#23
15-11-10, 01:50 PM
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The MGC was founded by Royal Warrant on 11th October 1915, final confirmation came in an Army Order on 22nd October.
The MGC cap badge and shouder title were both authorised on 29th December 1915. The only mention of MGC collar badges in the official records are bronze officer's ones - authorised on 15th march 1916. The Welsh Guards cap badge was authorised on 17th May 1915 (I think I have a note about the WG shoulder title somewhere but can't find it at the moment). A couple of comments There would have been a bit of time between authorisation, production and issue ! It is unlikely that MGC collar badges for ORs were of bronze and given the limited nature of their use, by Guards (and a few others but not counting Canadian troops) - they were probably private purchase !? I do not have the dates of the Guards MG cap badges but will try to look them up some time.
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#24
15-11-10, 09:05 PM
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KLR, thankyou for your reply and information.
 Interestingly, my information regarding the approval of the formation of the Machine Gun Corps by the King was taken from a newspaper clipping that was published on the ‘6th October 1915.’ It also mentioned that a Gazette notice was to follow. Is your information regarding the date of ‘11th October 1915’ taken from a gazette notice, or is it from the actual documents that the King signed and dated? I am also interested to know a bit more about the date of authorisation for the MGC cap badge and shoulder title. Is the ‘29th December 1915’ a gazette notice date, army orders date or something else? Cheers Brent
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#25
16-11-10, 07:42 AM
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The MGC was obviously not formed overnight - I'm sure there is a LG notice, it's online so it could easily be found ! There is an active group of people engaged in creating a proper history of the MGC - with at least one other member known to me on this Forum.
As to badges, OR's issues are recorded in the Royal Army Clothing Department records. These cover the period from 1855 to 1939. The dates I gave are when the 'Pattern' was 'Sealed'.
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#27
16-11-10, 02:00 PM
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Andy, is this from the Statistics of the Gt War volume ???, I've seen it before somewhere (don't have notes etc with me at the mo). Anyway, this passage relates to other ranks, officers were transferred from late Oct - my g'father was transf in mid Dec. Julian
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#30
17-11-10, 11:16 AM
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Thank you for the information chaps.
I for one would be very interested to know what is written in the Royal Warrant. Possibly it could go along the lines of: — MGC sanctioned by the King on the 6th October 1915, with date of acceptance from the 11th October 1915. Cheers Brent 
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