the yorkshire regiment

[jeanpit-frenchy]

the badge below come my grand father collection.

so i am sure what is genuine 100% WW1.

he had a "jr gaunt london" inscription (plaque behind the crown)

but lugs !!!!!! officier collar or cap badges ??

[Alan O]

It is odd to find a Gaunt plaque on an ORs badge. If it was an Officers I would expect it to be cast silver or bronze. The lugs are not usual and make it an early one which ties in with your WW1 dates.

Alan

[54Bty]

My bronze one has had the lugs removed and a slider added. The bronze collars came with it. I will post the white metal ones next.

[54Bty]

To continue here are the white metal badges. Two with a slider, there is a difference in the size of the letters on the scrolls.

[54Bty]

And one with lugs, plus the white metal collar badges.

[Luke H]

Originally Posted by jeanpit-frenchy

the badge below come my grand father collection.

so i am sure what is genuine 100% WW1.

he had a "jr gaunt london" inscription (plaque behind the crown)

but lugs !!!!!! officier collar or cap badges ??

As it's WW1 might it be a private purchase by a volunteer eager to get out to France/Belgium and the action? Did the Yorks have any pals battalions?

Luke

Lovely badge by the way Jeanpit, thanks for sharing.

[Keith Blakeman]

Many a time I've laughed as a dealer snaps up yet another of these rare and incorrect King's Crown patterns on ebay for next to nothing. This one may possibly be an unfinished reject as the voiding at the base of the A and cross hasn't been carried out.

[KLR]

The simple (and correct !) answer is that it dates to before the 1st WW. Loops were generally for the FSC. Also, Gaunts tablets are found on a number of pre war badges - when there was not so much pressure on production.
Loops and sliders are a complicated subject - there is quite a bit in the ACD records, but the main exception of course is that the the FSC was worn in India long after it was given up ast home.
In any case I think this badge (Jean-Pierre's) is pattern 4694A/1903.
Julian

[Luke H]

Originally Posted by KLR

In any case I think this badge (Jean-Pierre's) is pattern 4694A/1903.
Julian

Could well be Julian but if it is an '03 badge the guy must have been a "very old contemptable" if still serving as a private in 1914.

It still doesn't really explain the Gaunt tablet, I have lugged OR victorian badges which don't bare a QVC and none have makers tablets, and I don't recall seeing any at fairs with them or on ebay for that matter.

I had in mind when suggesting my idea the brass badges of the Manchester pals which were bought privately and had lugs in stead of the correct slider fittings for the period.

I do believe Alan has a WW1 economy Notts and Derby with a gaunt plaque http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/for...ht=notts+derby and it is thought this may be a private order badge, which is what I believe Jeanpit has. As has been said before white metal was not actually in short supply but brass was the metal of choice to slash production time on BM badges so the badge being in WM wouldn't necessarily contradict this idea.

It's certainly a mystery as the badge has a stratified date of being worn in WW1.

Cheers,

Luke

[jeanpit-frenchy]

thanks to all....

perhaps a NCO who give to a 10 years old french boy is old private badge ?, a guy who come in France with a family badge to bring luck ? ......(i like dream about my badges )

[KLR]

Luke, 4694A/1903 is the PATTERN, I don't know at what date it was superseded by another pattern (and there was no "brass economy" to this regt), so it could have been made (almost) anytime from 1903 onwards, but I reckon probably pre 1914. (Alan's N&D is another matter, they never had a "brass economy" badge and Alan knows that I think it is a "wrong 'un").
I do remain very dubious of Other Ranks / Privates having privately made badges !!!!
Julian

[Alan O]

It could well be a 1903 badge that has been in the stores of a TA Bn and issued out in 1914 or from an old soldier.

I still have a niggling thought that it might be a private TF order badge. This would tie in with the loops of a pre-war badge when the TF were equipping themselves. You do get Gaunt plaques on TF badges and from what Julian has told me the regular bn had badges privately made that are found with the plaque. I wold clarify the fact that I don nto think that these badges were bougth privately by the Ors but ordered by the TF or units outside the WD normal procurement system.

A nice variation if nothing else and thanks to Jean-Pitt for showing it. Keith is quite right about the WW2 crown variant often going for a song.

Alan

[KLR]

yes, ordered by the battalion, not by individuals
Given that no-one has seen a badge with a slider that also has the scars of where loops had been removed (I asked around earlier on another forum), it stands to reason that looped badges might have been returned to stores and yes, issued out later. I have a photograph of 16th Bn KLR wearing FSC in 1915 - they were a training battalion and clearly clad in old stock.
Julian

[Deejayuu]

Keith,
depends on the particular manufacturer as to whether the `A` was fretted. The majority did

[54Bty]

The plastic version.