Lincolnshire Regiment - Rocking Horse Pattern

[Jibba Jabba]

Thank you for everyones detailed repsonses so far.

I slept on this last night and I believe Alan had already come up with the answer in regards to the photograph! The badge is infact for one of the Volunteer battalions of the period. The design is the same except the base scroll which is attributed to either the 1st, 2nd or 3rd Volunteers. I really wish I had an original badge to show everyone but I dont have one in my collection.

As for the rocking horse, one point I neglected to mention was the length of the slider, none of the other types of badges have a slider as long as this and I'm wondering now if this is a Broderick cap badge?

[dragonz18]

Just a thought here........
Possibly NCO instructors ,at the end of training ?
Cheers !
Steve

[Alan O]

Steve,

I agree with you - the photo is post 1903 but possibly before 1908/09 (judging by the Lincs soldiers leather webbing) but definately pre war. The VB/TF are in their slouch hats that were in vogue after the Boer war but went out of service around the end of the decade. I would suggest that you have 2 Regular soldiers in ORs tunics and webbing who have been training with the Volunteer Bn. I cannot see and stripes on their arms marking them out as NCOs.

There is no evidence from the phtograph that the soldiers in slouch hats are Lincolnshires or but if they were to be, then VB soldiers would be wearing the all w/m VB cap badge with the 1st VB or 2nd VB in place of the Egypt scroll. Post 1908 when the TF was formed the badges would be in bi-metal with the blank scroll as shown in my post above. This continued until 1917. The old badges and uniforms may well have seen service beyond 1908 which is why I cannot say for certain that is pre-dates 1908. The 2 regulars have the standard Egypt bi-metal badge.

A very interesting photo all round.

Alan

[Jibba Jabba]

I understand that I need to back up what I said about the officers. Please allow me to explain.

This first photo I believe is 1904 in South Africa. I couldnt find a more South African photo in my collection! It shows a British officer talking to a South African officer outside a block house with a Kopje in the background What I really want the forum to concentrate on is the British officer, no rank insignia visable! The thing is shots in the field are very hard to find and I can understand the confusion.



Now this next shot shows an officers rig of the period. Just ignore all the equipment and pay special attention to the belt and two cross straps which pass under the epauletes, also note the design of the buckle.



Now here is group shot note the mixture of private purchase and the officer double shoulder strap rig with correct style buckle visable on the front row. As I said these men are disguised as other ranks. As you can see this idea was not unque to the first world war.



I`m sorry I cannot provide anymore proof. Will be back in a minute with a full size shot of the original photograph.

[Alan O]

Very nice photos but I seem to be missing the point of this thread - you have a ORs makers variation badge which you seem to assume that is a rare undocumented and previously unheard of officers badge. It being a standard bimetal badge with a slider rather than the completely different style Offrs pattern bronze badge with tangs. I cannot claim the years of experince that some members have but I have never heard of this 'rocking horse' pattern in any collectors circles.

This is based on a photo of a TF bn with 2 Lincs soliders who you claim are Officers 'in disguise' wearing ORs cap badges but no badges of rank on issue ORs tunics, Ors style hats and 1903 leather webbing based on the assumption that they are standing in the centre of a photo probably taken in UK after the Boer war had ended. So we have 2 soldiers in ORs uniforms with ORs badges and ORs rank.

Supporting evidence is another couple of unrelated and unconnected photos in another country several years earlier taken of some other soldiers from a completely different regiment. You than change your mind to say that your badge is a rare Vb badge yet anyone with a copy of Gaylor's book knows that it is not as it does not sat 'VB' on it but Egypt. It is not even a TF blank scroll badge either.

Are you a 'troll' trying to wind up the forum members? If so I suggest that you stop it.

Alan

[Jibba Jabba]

The photograph is volunteers and the badge shown in the photo I believe to be the volunteers badge and you are right to say is nothing to do with the cap badge that started this thread. The two men wearing badges in the photo are officers. I`m trying to prove to the forum what Guerrilla war officer uniform looked like. According to many the Boer War ended in 1902 however what proceeded was the Guerilla War until 1904. This conflict is well documented in the books "After Pretoria". Field service officer uniform of the Boer War and Guerrilla war included no rank insignia and if it was worn, it was worn on the epaulet. The first photo in my last post is of a Lincolns officer.

The Volunteers badge is of two types an other ranks badge produced in white metal and the very rare solid silver badge, both badges are extremely rare. The white metal having been reproduced for all three Battalions. I once had the luxery of holding a solid silver example to the 2nd VB.

The cap badge that started this thread I believe to be an other ranks of type which is relatively unknown and is a sperate area of discussion.

[Jibba Jabba]

Alan,

The Territorial Force was formed in 1908 from the Volunteer Battalions. The blank scroll badge was worn in 1908 onwards by the 4th and 5th Battalions these units were formed from the 1st, 2nd and 3rd VB. The badge design of the VB Battalions which included the words 1st Volunteer Battalion, 2nd Volunteer Battalion, 3rd Volunteer Battalion replaced "Lincolnshire" in the base scroll.

These badges are found in two types in the all white metal and the all silver. The silver I always assumed was the officers badge.

Actually I`m not a troll I`m trying to create an interesting thread here. I admit it should really be two threads and not one but that could not be helped.

[Jibba Jabba]

I think the term 'troll' is a term used very liberally on forums. I wouldnt call someone who builds a constructive arguement a troll. I always throught a troll was someone who who creates conflict through argument with zero proof and insists that they are correct.

[Luke H]

So what is the point you are trying to make... that you have an makers variation of a plain standard non-VB ORs cap badge, that you have an interesting post boer war photo of two men in OR uniform amongst others wearing slouch hats or that officers in the field during the boer war didn't always wear full officers dress? As I fail to see where any of this is going.

Luke

[Jibba Jabba]

Who are you now Luke, the new judge of validity of posts to the forum? Sorry if I get on your nerves by the way.

I have already apologised to forum for the fact that two topics have become inter-twinned, I wont repeat myself for your sake. This is no big deal.

[Luke H]

No JJ I'm not a judge of validity, I'm asking what your second/third point is after establishing the badge is just an OR variation? You don't get on my nerves I just wonder where you get some of this stuff from sometimes.

Luke