York & Lancs A/A collars

[badger123]

I bought the top 2 collars to the York and Lancs as a pair. On looking closer it is clear that they are not a pair and when I compared it to another collar I have, it seems that all 3 are different.

The differences are quite subtle (essentially the grass the tiger is stood on, the size of the tigers belly and the way/place the loops are fixed).

I am surprised that during the relatively short time that A/A badges were worn by the regiment, between the 1950's (?) up to disbandment in 1968, there would be such a variation.

Any one any ideas why this would be? Is it makers variations, if so which makers would have been involved?

Thanks, Ivan

[matti467]

I'd guess that they were made for the ACF as the cap badges were until 1985.
Matti

[badger123]

I thought about that Matti and the South Yorkshire/Sheffield ACF Y&L connection post disbandment.

But as the collars were only worn with No2's which were not on general issue to cadets, I'm not so sure the collars were made for the few Y&L cadet detachments (unlike the A/A cap badges which were made for the cadets).

Ivan

[matti467]

I agree but there would be lots of Sgt instructors. i'd contact the regimental association. I met the last col of the regiment once at Endcliffe Hall. He was generous with his time and knowledge.
Also I could see them being made for wear by ORs whilst the brigade badge was in use,
Matti

[badger123]

I think you’re right about being in use during the 'Brigade badge' era. In fact the top 2 collars came from an ex Y&L serviceman who served in the 60's.

Don't suppose you can recall any of the adult instructors names who were around at the time you were at Endcliffe ho may be able to help me do you? Please pm me.

[Wyn vdSchee]

Could the administrator(s) please move this thread to the British Infantry area.

[grey_green_acorn]

I think I am correct in thinking that the York and Lancaster Regiment was not "disbanded" in 1968 but placed in "Suspended Animation". Not sure what the technicalities of this meant but there was an entry for the Y&L in the Army List until well into the 1970s and maybe longer. I would not be surprised therefore that contracts for the manufacture of badges were continued (we know how efficient the MOD procurement system is!) and badges were "available" for ACF Detachments and retained for the possibility of the reformation of the Regiment!
Just a theory that may account for the availability of examples!

Tim

[badger123]

Originally Posted by Wyn vdSchee

Could the administrator(s) please move this thread to the British Infantry area.

Very sorry, didn't realise I had posted it in the Candadian section. yes, please move it.

Ivan

[badger123]

Tim,
The Y&L regiment was disbanded in 1968 (with Regimental HQ eventually closing in 1987).

However, the Hallamshire Battalion of the Y&L WAS placed into suspended animation around 1968 and placed on a cadre status and eventually merged into the Yorkshire Volunteers in the 1970's (would need to check the exact date when I get home later).

Interesting what you say about the possibility of manufacturing contracts been continued for cadet units after the disbandment of the regiment. Would anyone know how to find out more about this?

Ivan

If you refer to the Churchill Infantry collar badge book there is reference to AA Hallamshire collar badges.

[badger123]

Marcus, trawling through my books that relate to the Hallamshires and my pictures of Endcliffe Hall, here's what I have found out so far.

1. Colour party at Endcliffe Hall laying up the Hallamshire colours 1984-All wearing Yorks Vols collars (I know the Hallamshires were not around then, it was a special event commemorating the 125 anniversary of the formation of the Hallamshires).

2. Duchess of Kent presenting new colours to 1st Bn Yorks Vols speaking to members of D (Hallams) Coy 1971-All wearing Yorks Vols collars.

But here's the one that may clinch it.

3. Hallamshire Bn cadre (6 men)! Sennybridge camp 1969-All wearing Y&L collars (and cap badges as would be expected).

So from this little bit of photographic evidence, it seems that the Hallamshire Bn did wear a type of Y&L collar but whether they were different to the normal Y&L collars, I cannot say. Also, that D (Hallams) Coy of the Yorks Vols wore the Yorks Vols collars.

When I speak to some people at Endcliffe Hall after Christmas, I may have some more information.

Ivan

Hi Ivan,

The 1969 picture sounds most interesting, at least it establishes that the cadre still wore Y&L insignia.

The alleged Yorkshire Volunteers (Hallamshire) collar badges are definitely illustrated in the book I mentioned. I personally don't believe that they were worn within the context of the Yorkshire Volunteers (I could be wrong) as from personal experience the authorised Leeds Rifles ones were not worn and on the only big parade I took part in everyone wore the generic Yorksire Volunteers' collar badges.

It is funny though in the disparity of availability of AA collars to the Hallamshires and the Leeds Rifles in that I have had through my hands in excess of 50 pairs of Halamshire titles (big collars with the rose joined to the centre of the tigers back), but only 4 or 5 pairs of Leeds Rifles AA collars.

A bit of a mystery I suppose, I am at the moment working my way through the 1972/3 issues of the White Rose (PWO Regimental magazine) in which of course the PWO associated Yorkshire Volunteer companies have a small section, but nothing of any interest on cap/collar badges.

Cheers,

Marcus