Information wanted please

[Alex Rice]

Hi All
Can any of the experts on Royal Navy insignia answer the following please?

1. The Victorian CPO's cap badge was an anchor inside a rope circle below the standard QVC. When was the CPO's badge with the wreath around the anchor introduced?
2. What did PO's wear as a cap badge in the late 1800's, or did they wear the same badge?
3. Did able-seamen wear a rank badge prior to 1960, if so what was it?
4. On naval trade badges, there is a 6-pointed star above part 1 qualified, star above and below on part 2 qualified and a crown above on the part 3 qualified? Was there any connection between these and the rank of the rating?

Thanks for any help. Cheers,

Alex

[Alex Rice]

Hi All
Come on, I can't believe that with all the encyclopedic knowledge of the members, nobody can answer any of these!!!
Cheers,
Alex

[fez]

Hi,
I can only comment on current matters but no stars is AB2 (OD) a single star above is for the rank of AB1, and 2 stars is for leading hand qualified. A crown above is PO.
I dont think there was an OD,s badge and as you said, i think wartime the stars would have been part qualified but i would be interested to hear from an expert.
ATB
Fez

[Alex Rice]

Hi Fez
Thanks for the reply. Excuse my ignorance, but what does 'OD' stand for?
Cheers,
Alex

[fez]

Ordinary seaman now an AB2

[Alex Rice]

Hi Fez
Thanks for that, but why OD and not OS?
Cheers,
Alex

[fez]

I have no idea

[Jim Maclean]

OD = Ordinary Deckhand, generally used as a term of abuse. Used these days by clueless sprogs.

The use of stars is a nightmare, basically it is to do with branch qualification not rank but having said that it could indicate scale within rank, confused? I am.

About the only safe one is two stars below the device indicating Instructor status. But could be worn from LS to CPO.

[seadog]

Hi Alex,

Sorry can’t help you with the old pre 1960 info. But a fact is that the rating level of the mustering badge (trade or non-substantive badge) has no direct link to the rank of a person. There are two reasons for this the one is that because you had to wait for a post to be promoted but could complete your qualifying courses and so be one or two technical levels above you rank (post in crew). The other is that in the “good” old drinking and fighting Navy a senior person could be demoted for XXXX trouble but he would maintain his qualification (which could never be taken away). The term non-substantive badge is related to this separation between rank and mustering qualification (they get paid according to rank).

Neville

[Alex Rice]

Hi All
Thanks for the replies.
Cheers,
Alex

[GreatDane]

hi Alex,
a little late, but
1. 1920
2. as far as I can establish same badge, but only a single ring around the anchor
3. sorry, but not quite sure, but AS seems to have been the foul anchor also before 1960.
Birger