British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum

Recent Books by Forum Members

   

Go Back   British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum > South African Military and Police Insignia > Army

 Other Pages: Galleries, Links etc.
Glossary  Books by Forum Members     Canadian Pre 1914    CEF    CEF Badge Inscriptions   Canadian post 1920     Canadian post 1953     British Cavalry Badges     Makers' Marks    Pipers' Badges  Canadian Cloth Titles  Books  SEARCH
 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #16  
Old 20-07-14, 12:31 PM
Silver Tourist Silver Tourist is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: South of Hadrian's Wall
Posts: 281
Default Hallmark Date.

Good afternoon.

I think you will find it is 1906-07. They are found wih sponsor's marks to both Dowler and Hobson. Fixings are loops, or blades.

Enjoy.

S.T.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 20-07-14, 08:24 PM
Brian Conyngham's Avatar
Brian Conyngham Brian Conyngham is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Durban South Africa
Posts: 1,238
Default

Hi S.T.

I am far from an expert as far as date and makers marks go, just used one I found on the web and it gave me that result.

Thanks for correction.

Brian
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 20-07-14, 08:27 PM
Brian Conyngham's Avatar
Brian Conyngham Brian Conyngham is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Durban South Africa
Posts: 1,238
Default

Frank

No Victorian examples unfortunately, but would like one.

Forgot about this collar.

Brian
Attached Images
File Type: jpg BMR 1.jpg (71.8 KB, 11 views)
File Type: jpg BMR 2.jpg (66.1 KB, 9 views)
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 21-07-14, 07:53 AM
Milmed's Avatar
Milmed Milmed is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Africa
Posts: 1,702
Default

Do Victorian BMR badges even exist?

I dont collect regimental insignia or know much about Natal units, but looking at contemporary collections, I have never seen a BMR badge with a Victorian Crown.

According to Sam Foote's write-up in Commando, the BMR formed in 1894 and was the left wing of NMR (formed in 1888). As a wing of the NMR would they not simply have worn NMR insignia. I know the NMR facing colour was brown and the BMR was green, so this may be the only means to distinguish the BMR and NMR pre 1902 when BMR got there own KC badges.

If there were BMR victorian badges and someone has them, please post pictures so I could be further enlightened

Steven
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 21-07-14, 08:40 AM
Frank Kelley's Avatar
Frank Kelley Frank Kelley is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 7,562
Default

Hello Brian,
I did not take a close look at those marks because I assumed you must have done before you posted the photographs, but, they are sixth cycle Birmingham marks, the date letter "g" is indeed 1906-07, but, this does in no way detract, it is still a good scarce badge.
I wonder who it belonged to?
Regards again Frank

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Conyngham View Post
Hi S.T.

I am far from an expert as far as date and makers marks go, just used one I found on the web and it gave me that result.

Thanks for correction.

Brian
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 21-07-14, 05:39 PM
iaindh's Avatar
iaindh iaindh is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Johannesburg, South Africa
Posts: 1,222
Default

Steven,

In Owen's, no 478 is shown as a bronze QVC slouch hat badge.

Iain

Quote:
Originally Posted by Milmed View Post
Do Victorian BMR badges even exist?

I dont collect regimental insignia or know much about Natal units, but looking at contemporary collections, I have never seen a BMR badge with a Victorian Crown.

According to Sam Foote's write-up in Commando, the BMR formed in 1894 and was the left wing of NMR (formed in 1888). As a wing of the NMR would they not simply have worn NMR insignia. I know the NMR facing colour was brown and the BMR was green, so this may be the only means to distinguish the BMR and NMR pre 1902 when BMR got there own KC badges.

If there were BMR victorian badges and someone has them, please post pictures so I could be further enlightened

Steven
__________________
C'est magnifique, mais ce n'est pas la guerre
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 21-07-14, 05:50 PM
Milmed's Avatar
Milmed Milmed is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Africa
Posts: 1,702
Default

Hi Iain,
Thanks I must have missed that. I do see it and it must be a unique example! Just hope it is genuine and not something made up by joining a KC BMR title and a QVC.

Steven
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 21-07-14, 08:37 PM
Brian Conyngham's Avatar
Brian Conyngham Brian Conyngham is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Durban South Africa
Posts: 1,238
Default

Frank

If you have some BMR Vic could you post them, they must be scarce never seen one.

I now regret dropping off collecting badges 15 odd years back when the Vic Badges were available.

Regards
Brian
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 22-07-14, 07:07 AM
Frank Kelley's Avatar
Frank Kelley Frank Kelley is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 7,562
Default

Hello Brian,
Yes I do have some, I remember posting two or three examples on the ABW forum along with the first QSA that I bought as a boy, a BMR Trooper and one of, I think, only ten men of the regiment to be entitled to the Relief of Ladysmith clasp, for his service in the Composite Regiment, I know Brett has an example so that leaves eight more, I wonder where they are today.
I also remember posting a few Carbineers badges there too, I'll have to find the media with those particular photographs, in the mean time, please do go over to the ABW forum and have a look.
Victorian BMR are scarce because they never had the numbers of men that the Natal Carbineers had (or the variations in badges! for example, many wartime enlistments into the Natal Carbineers merely wore the pouch badge on the hat for the duration, while others wore the handsome pieces made in Durban and Pietermaritzburg!) unlike the Carbineers and Natal Mounted Rifles, they did not expand the size of the regiment during the Anglo Boer War.
Regards Frank

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Conyngham View Post
Frank

If you have some BMR Vic could you post them, they must be scarce never seen one.

I now regret dropping off collecting badges 15 odd years back when the Vic Badges were available.

Regards
Brian

Last edited by Frank Kelley; 22-07-14 at 07:23 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 22-07-14, 05:47 PM
Traist's Avatar
Traist Traist is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Rustenburg, South Africa
Posts: 1,638
Default

Hi Brian, this what I have for that period. Regards Andrew
Attached Images
File Type: jpg BMR.JPG (39.6 KB, 18 views)
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 23-07-14, 06:58 AM
Frank Kelley's Avatar
Frank Kelley Frank Kelley is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 7,562
Default

Hello Iain,
That was British made and worn by all ranks, interestingly, for such a small unit there are at least three differing versions of it, they do normally have a little vertical ring to the reverse of the crown for the slouch hat, like the NMR badges.
Regards Frank

Quote:
Originally Posted by iaindh View Post
Steven,

In Owen's, no 478 is shown as a bronze QVC slouch hat badge.

Iain
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 23-07-14, 07:32 AM
Frank Kelley's Avatar
Frank Kelley Frank Kelley is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 7,562
Default

The British made pre Anglo Boer War bronzed brass slouch hat badge was worn by all ranks, certainly not unique, at least three differing versions exist, moreover, they were die struck in a single piece, so not "joined" in any way!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Milmed View Post
Hi Iain,
Thanks I must have missed that. I do see it and it must be a unique example! Just hope it is genuine and not something made up by joining a KC BMR title and a QVC.

Steven
Attached Images
File Type: jpg P1020542.jpg (61.0 KB, 13 views)
File Type: jpg P1020543.jpg (48.5 KB, 8 views)

Last edited by Frank Kelley; 23-07-14 at 07:37 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 23-07-14, 07:51 AM
iaindh's Avatar
iaindh iaindh is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Johannesburg, South Africa
Posts: 1,222
Default

Hi Frank,

I guess they were custom made to order.

I only have the KC for both NMR and BMR though I do have BMR L & R collars aswell as the small shoulder title.

regards, Iain

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Kelley View Post
Hello Iain,
That was British made and worn by all ranks, interestingly, for such a small unit there are at least three differing versions of it, they do normally have a little vertical ring to the reverse of the crown for the slouch hat, like the NMR badges.
Regards Frank
__________________
C'est magnifique, mais ce n'est pas la guerre
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 23-07-14, 07:58 AM
Frank Kelley's Avatar
Frank Kelley Frank Kelley is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 7,562
Default

Hello Iain,
Yes, they would have to have been ordered and indeed, paid for too!
Regards Frank

Quote:
Originally Posted by iaindh View Post
Hi Frank,

I guess they were custom made to order.

I only have the KC for both NMR and BMR though I do have BMR L & R collars aswell as the small shoulder title.

regards, Iain
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 23-07-14, 09:59 AM
Milmed's Avatar
Milmed Milmed is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Africa
Posts: 1,702
Default

Thanks for posting the QVC BMR badges. Good to see my assumptions were unfounded
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

mhs link

All times are GMT. The time now is 06:56 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.