SA Tank Corps

[Frank Kelley]

Hello Iain,
A very good book, the authur, was actually there at the time!
Regards Frank

LOL at 20 cents!
That is one of the reasons why older SA badges are hard to find in your own country!

Originally Posted by iaindh

Brian,

the SATC titles are fire gilt.
I do like the Italy map showing all the SA Units involved. Will Endley had one mounted on his wall and he had added the patches and badges (as I recall,) of all the different units; it was quite impressive.
I'm sure 20c was actually worth something when you bought your one.

Frank,

I just ran out of time unfortunately. I had hoped to meet him.
I've never read up on the Abyssinian campaign but always intended too. I've come across bits in other books. There is a book in the "South Africans at war" series, "The war of one hundred days."


regards, Iain

[Frank Kelley]

Hello Brian,
No, I don't have a copy, I will put it on the list, I think it was perhaps Major Tylden who said their motto could be interpreted as "We're it" or "We're here" I can't remember!
I do actually prefer their earlier badges with the bi lingual scroll.
Regards again Frank

Originally Posted by Brian Conyngham

Frank

Do you have the book "Springboks in Armour" by Harry Klein, a nice reference work.

Their motto "Ons Is" is "We Are"...I believe in their case meaning; "We Are" the best?

Brian

[iaindh]

Hi Frank,

James Ambrose Brown? I read his book "One Man's war;" he kept a diary of his time in the Western desert with the TS and he did refer back to Abyssinia on occasions.

Think about it Frank, if you were to go out and buy a poster or print, similar to that, (and I dont mean an original where value has been added with age,) what would it cost today? I'm guessing at R60 to R80 in this country.

regards, Iain

Originally Posted by Frank Kelley

Hello Iain,
A very good book, the authur, was actually there at the time!
Regards Frank

LOL at 20 cents!
That is one of the reasons why older SA badges are hard to find in your own country!

[Frank Kelley]

Hello Steven,
You mentioned East African made cast badges, do you collect these, some very interesting and very rare badges were worn in the war, there was a little Rhino badge worn by the East African Armoured Car Regt etc.
Regards Frank

Originally Posted by Milmed

Hi Brian,
The SATC s/t that Iain showed is not fire gilt but unissued gilding metal. I have an identical set. These appeared on the market in the past couple of years selling on our local auction site. I think I picked up my set for around R20. This was when there were many to be found and looked like no-one was buying. I believe they were manufactured in the UK, delivered to SA and never issued. I have never seen a picture of the SATC personal wearing this title or for that matter any picture showing the title!

You mention an identical SAAF title. Would it be possible to post a picture as I have not seen a SAAF title similar to the SATC title.

There was of course single s/t worn in early stages of WWII. These were all cast brass with 'lugs' similar to those on East African made badges, so I assume they were made in East Africa. They are all about 50mm x 10mm and I have seen the following of this type: SAAF, SAMC, SAEC, SATC, SACS, SAHA.

Steven

[Frank Kelley]

Good morning Iain,
Yes, that was him JAB, is he still with us?
I would only want an original of anything, be it, a poster or indeed a badge, my point was just that all this stuff has another value outside your country and so much has now gone forever because of that very reason.
Kind regards Frank

Originally Posted by iaindh

Hi Frank,

James Ambrose Brown? I read his book "One Man's war;" he kept a diary of his time in the Western desert with the TS and he did refer back to Abyssinia on occasions.

Think about it Frank, if you were to go out and buy a poster or print, similar to that, (and I dont mean an original where value has been added with age,) what would it cost today? I'm guessing at R60 to R80 in this country.

regards, Iain

[Frank Kelley]

Incidentally Iain,
I like your collar badges, I must have a look for a pair of those, not common things!
Regards Frank

[iaindh]

Good morning Frank,

i haven't added to the SATC for a while but generally if I'm collecting a certain unit's badges, as in this case the collars are blackened so I would have a blackened cap to match, so I still need plain collars also.

I did gather what you were saying about the Rand's decline. It still isn't too expensive to live here but to holiday overseas, you have to keep your hands in your pockets
Badges are still cheap here but you fight for the rare ones. Overseas buyers also poach the local market. Probably need to look offshore for the rare badges like you say

regards, Iain

Originally Posted by Frank Kelley

Incidentally Iain,
I like your collar badges, I must have a look for a pair of those, not common things!
Regards Frank

[Frank Kelley]

Hello Iain,
Throughout the 1970's and 1980's, a lot and I do mean a lot, of badges were taken out of the country because they were just so cheap, there was a time here, when some Victorian made British badges were very hard to find and yet they were plentiful in South Africa, needless to say, there are far fewer there today!
Regards Frank

Originally Posted by iaindh

Good morning Frank,

i haven't added to the SATC for a while but generally if I'm collecting a certain unit's badges, as in this case the collars are blackened so I would have a blackened cap to match, so I still need plain collars also.

I did gather what you were saying about the Rand's decline. It still isn't too expensive to live here but to holiday overseas, you have to keep your hands in your pockets
Badges are still cheap here but you fight for the rare ones. Overseas buyers also poach the local market. Probably need to look offshore for the rare badges like you say

regards, Iain

[Milmed]

Originally Posted by Frank Kelley

Hello Steven,
You mentioned East African made cast badges, do you collect these, some very interesting and very rare badges were worn in the war, there was a little Rhino badge worn by the East African Armoured Car Regt etc.
Regards Frank

Hi Frank,
No, My main interest is medical and nursing. I do thave the East African Army Medical Corps and East African Military Nursing Service cast brass badges and also EAMS and EAAMC shoulder titles. The nursing badge is pretty rare - only seen 2 others.

Steven

[Frank Kelley]

Hello Steven,
Well, I just wondered, I think all the East African stuff is actually quite rare these days, I very much like those badges and titles too!
Regards Frank

Originally Posted by Milmed

Hi Frank,
No, My main interest is medical and nursing. I do thave the East African Army Medical Corps and East African Military Nursing Service cast brass badges and also EAMS and EAAMC shoulder titles. The nursing badge is pretty rare - only seen 2 others.

Steven

[Brian Conyngham]

Steven

I do not have a straight SAAF title in my collection but that is another story I would rather forget! But here it is.....A few years ago I was not into SAAF at all but had seen one or two of the straight titles in a box at a militaria shop near to where I stay and compared them to the SATC also at the same shop. Later when I became interested in SAAF items, these had been sold on.

Brian

[Milmed]

Thanks Brian,
I attache pics of the straight SAAF and SATC titles.

The first is the large gilding metal title with looped lugs like Iain's example. This is the one that came onto the market in the past few years on mass and appears to be british made and very similar to early SA titles. The ones I have seen all appear to unpolished unissued gilding metal (referred to in earlier post as 'fire gilt' but in fact nothing like true fire gilt badges).

The second is the SATC brass cast badge I believe made in East Africa as casr lugs are similar to East African badges. Note they are longer in length and shorter in height than the first SATC titles. These are the straight titles more often come across and the ones I referred to in my list of straight titles.

Last is the SAAF straight title I am aware of. Note same as cast brass SATC.

The UDF dress regulations for corps s/t only refer to the bilingual titles as official. Note these are pre war and probably worn by PF soldiers. My opinion on the straight titles is that they were manufactured for CF corps units. The CF regiments all had straight titles (whether english or afrikaans) and with the expansion of CF corps personnel, there must have been a shortage of titles. I also believe that these titles are all in English as most of the volunteers in the early days of WWII were english speaking members.

Steven

[Brian Conyngham]

Steven

That is the one!

Glad you have one, you can clearly see the same pattern with the down-turned letters.

Brian

[Frank Kelley]

Gentlemen,
At the risk of taking my own thread off topic, I can say that these are indeed very early war and were certainly worn at least for those few momentous months when the wretched "macaroni" lost his smug little empire!
The example show below was worn by an old friend who is sadly no longer with us, he was a rigger and served with Number 1 Squadron SAAF at Wajir and then Dagabur, they were, at one point, down to just five usable Hurricanes!
Regards to you both,
Frank

[Frank Kelley]

Hello Iain,
I only bought the SATC badge in my original post on here because it came with a really nice example of the 8th Army "crusaders cross" on a South African flash, moreover, it was also a bullion example, though, in well used condition, but, I just thought it was nice, but, I don't have the collar badges as yet in the case of this SATC badge.
Regards Frank

Originally Posted by iaindh

Good morning Frank,

i haven't added to the SATC for a while but generally if I'm collecting a certain unit's badges, as in this case the collars are blackened so I would have a blackened cap to match, so I still need plain collars also.

I did gather what you were saying about the Rand's decline. It still isn't too expensive to live here but to holiday overseas, you have to keep your hands in your pockets
Badges are still cheap here but you fight for the rare ones. Overseas buyers also poach the local market. Probably need to look offshore for the rare badges like you say

regards, Iain