Irish Guards Senior Ranks bi-metal cap star.

[hagwalther]

Originally Posted by Alan O

Chris

Am I right in thinking the badge is Firmin's? There seem to be a number of dealers with large amounts of a/a and new metal Firmin made badges at the moment including some scarce ones (CCF and TA) which suggests that they might be ordering them direct from the makers as new.

Alan

Alan

Hi Alan,

The packaging is certainly as per post 2012 Firmin when MoD spec was changed to remove maker marks from the badge and the packaging it come in. Some badges in this packaging are exactly the same as those with full printed NSN as per fully authorised and public purse purchased items but others are pure fantasy pieces.

I have one of the modern Irish Guards pieces in question here. It is a mounted (multiple part) badge and the silver star part is not particularly silver. In fact, the ADC commented on the quality of the badge which they had previously authorised but stated that the quality was a matter for the Irish Guards to accept or sort out. They Guards may therefore have gone to Firmin for a replacement better quality piece but I believe that this would be a mounted item too.

The one you have (I have the same in the post on its way to me) is a one part badge. Similar items include the Scots Guards version. The official Scots piece is A/A and no recent ADC authorisation (as far as I know) has come been made for a replacement 'New Metal' piece.

The Welsh Guards item is 925 silver and comes in a presentation case. I have an example complete with packaging around the case. It took me over five years to get one and these badges are very hard to obtain for the reasons previously mentioned. This item is not in Hodges book as it is post 2005 which was the date Hodges covered.

Regards,

Chris

[hagwalther]

PS.

Alan, if the badges came with full NSN and correct pattern No. then that should satisfy authenticity from MoD stores. However, I have a fantasy 'New Metal' black Parachute Regt. item on its way to me with the official silver NSN and pattern no printed on it but with the colour detail of 'Silver' replaced with 'black'.

Can't win can you...

Regards,

Chris

[Toby Purcell]

Originally Posted by grumpy

I believe that drum/ trumpet/ bugle/ pipe majors can be as senior as WO 2 by virtue of range ranking.

Yes they can be now, along with Superintending Clerks (I think that’s what the Guards call their chief clerks?). I was referring to the changes in 1915, when the ‘sergeant drummer’ (not yet returned to ‘drum major’) certainly no longer held sway as he had done previously. That said I’m not sure if the Foot Guards had observed the ‘sergeant drummer’ downgrade, perhaps you might know?

[Hawthorn]

Originally Posted by Toby Purcell

Yes they can be now, along with Superintending Clerks (I think that’s what the Guards call their chief clerks?). I was referring to the changes in 1915, when the ‘sergeant drummer’ (not yet returned to ‘drum major’) certainly no longer held sway as he had done previously. That said I’m not sure if the Foot Guards had observed the ‘sergeant drummer’ downgrade, perhaps you might know?

Certainly in The Coldstream Guards in the 80's to 90's he would have been referred to as The Orderly Room Quartermaster Sergeant, adressed as 'Sir' and held a Rank up to Warrant Officer First Class. (Just to confuse everyone!)

Simon.

[Toby Purcell]

Originally Posted by Hawthorn

Certainly in The Coldstream Guards in the 80's to 90's he would have been referred to as The Orderly Room Quartermaster Sergeant, adressed as 'Sir' and held a Rank up to Warrant Officer First Class. (Just to confuse everyone!)

Simon.

Thank you for the reply Simon. I think there might be some confusion there, as a QMS appointment was not above WOII. It was generally WOII ORQMS, and then WOI Superintending Clerk.

[Hawthorn]

Toby,

Many thanks for that, the years must have clouded my memories as I recall that one of the ORQMS when I served was promoted to WO I.........that could ofcourse have been a promotion to another Appointment away from The Orderly Room.

Simon.

[Toby Purcell]

Originally Posted by Hawthorn

Toby,

Many thanks for that, the years must have clouded my memories as I recall that one of the ORQMS when I served was promoted to WO I.........that could ofcourse have been a promotion to another Appointment away from The Orderly Room.

Simon.

Yes, I suspect that’s it Simon.