25 Army Tk Bde

[Mike Jackson]

Ignoring the obviously inaccurate description, would someone with a better quality PC than mine tell me the colours of the RTR tape on this shoulder strap?
Someone obviously wants it badly!
Thanks, Mike

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/100-origin...item4d0aad9153

[Rob Miller]

It could be black over green?

Rob

[Old Smelly]

IMHO a made up piece
Lee

[Mike Jackson]

Originally Posted by Old Smelly

IMHO a made up piece
Lee

Agreed. However, I believe 51 RTR wore green/black and served in 25 Army Tk Bde until Dec 44 The award of the maple leaf was in May 44. Jim MacDonald/Peter Payne "A look at things to do with the RTR" shows a genuine shoulder strap to 51 RTR.

[Mike Jackson]

Originally Posted by Old Smelly

IMHO a made up piece
Lee

And currently at £311. But I suppose any insignia to 81 RTR is pretty rare!
Mike

[cymro]

Here's mine - from an impeccable source, as Lee will testify!

Jon

[54Bty]

Black over dark green.

Marc

[plang876]

Very interested in this thread, noticed the item on ebay myself.

Assuming that it it's 25th Tank Bdes 51 RTR, how come the colours are Green/Black? RTR Assocs webpage says that 51 RTR colours were Black/Grey?

The Green/Black combination is attributed to 18 Bn Tank Corps - in the (limited) knowledge I have, they were never part of 25th Tank Bde.

Only seen b/w photos so impossible to tell from them.

Researching the later evolution of this formation, 25th Armoured Engineer Bde RE which retained 51 RTR until disbandment May/Jun 1945

[Mike Jackson]

I believe that 18 Bn Tank Corps was one of the last to form in World War 1 and one of the first to be disbanded. By 1919 it had disappeared from the Order of Battle. There's no linkage between 18 Bn TC and 51 RTR. 51 RTR was formed in 1939 and like 45 RTR had its roots in the Leeds Rifle - hence the former's choice of black/green I assume.

[plang876]

Originally Posted by Mike Jackson

I believe that 18 Bn Tank Corps was one of the last to form in World War 1 and one of the first to be disbanded. By 1919 it had disappeared from the Order of Battle. There's no linkage between 18 Bn TC and 51 RTR. 51 RTR was formed in 1939 and like 45 RTR had its roots in the Leeds Rifle - hence the former's choice of black/green I assume.

I don't doubt the authenticity of the examples shown and wearing the traditional 'Rifles' colours of Black and Green seems logical enough.
However, following RTR Associations 'RTR Customs' and subsection 'Colours of Individual Regiments', 45 RTR is specifically 'Black/Green with Yellow Horizontal stripe' and 51 RTR, as aforementioned, Black/Grey the fact they had specific distinctions yet didn't observe them makes an interesting feature.

Good to see some preserved colour examples as it's impossible to tell from period b/w photos!
Any ideas whether the other component units of 25th Tank Bde (NIH, 7th Bn Suffolks, Royal Devon Yeomanry, wore their respective colours?)

Regards, Paddy

[Mike Jackson]

The following units served in 25 Army Tke Bde at various times in WW2:
11, 12, 43, 99 and 51 RTR, 142 Regt RAC and the NIH. 142 Regt RAC was formed from the conversion of 7 Bn Suffolk Regt and 142 (RDY) Army Fd Regt RA may have supported 25 Army Tk Bde but was never part of it.
142 Regt RAC wore RTR style shoulder strap tapes in regimental colours of red and yellow.
Mike

[ORISKANY]

I bet you that bidder 4***4 was brassed off! He/she really wanted it.

[badjez]

Mike,

Do you have any photos, or more details on the various insignia worn by 142 Regt, RAC, please?

Stephen.

[Mike Jackson]

142 Regt RAC wore the Suffolk's badge in the black beret. Other insignia as shown:
142 Regt RAC - 7 Suffolk- 25 Tk Bde.02.jpg

[plang876]

Originally Posted by Mike Jackson

The following units served in 25 Army Tke Bde at various times in WW2:
11, 12, 43, 99 and 51 RTR, 142 Regt RAC and the NIH. 142 Regt RAC was formed from the conversion of 7 Bn Suffolk Regt and 142 (RDY) Army Fd Regt RA may have supported 25 Army Tk Bde but was never part of it.
142 Regt RAC wore RTR style shoulder strap tapes in regimental colours of red and yellow.
Mike

Hi Mike,
Just going back over some of my notes. Originally gleaned from Ron Addymans book '51 RTR, Morley, Tunisia, Italy'.
Googling 'Ronald Addyman: Responses:Royal Tank Regiment. para 5 is where I probably got the misleading info that RDY were 'part' of 25th Tk Bde. as opposed to 'in support of'. A small but obviously important distinction.

Paddy