CEF Cobourg Heavy Battery Fake? - British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum

whizzbang · #1 14-03-11, 11:03 PM

Before I return this to the seller, I'd like to get some confirmation that this is a fake. From the sellers pic it looked like a pickled brass finish (which has not been well faked to date as far as I know) - it is plain brass. This is the first CEF artillery badge of this type I have purchased - I don't think I am off to a good start!

Thanks,

Ian.

Bill A · #2 15-03-11, 12:14 AM

Hi Ian, That badge looks a lot like the Drac's badges that were put out a few years ago. Notes: The badge is cast from the images. The lugs look odd. The right side one appears to be cast as part of the badge, and not soldered on. The entire rear looks poorly finished as in a casting and not crisp like one would see in a striking. The overall finish on the obverse is too even. One would expect wear on the high spots. And there are some odd flaws in the face of the badge as well. The lettering in the artillery wheel, the odd lines behind the CBH smack of a casting not a striking.
The CHB is one of the badges that Dracs copied.

whizzbang · #3 15-03-11, 12:31 AM

Thanks Bill. Good points. It almost looks like the lugs are applied on top of the remnants of tangs. Classic case of "if the price is too good to be true it probably is..." Cheers, Ian.

mad4thcef · #4 15-03-11, 12:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill A

Hi Ian, That badge looks a lot like the Drac's badges that were put out a few years ago. Notes: The badge is cast from the images. The lugs look odd. The right side one appears to be cast as part of the badge, and not soldered on. The entire rear looks poorly finished as in a casting and not crisp like one would see in a striking. The overall finish on the obverse is too even. One would expect wear on the high spots. And there are some odd flaws in the face of the badge as well. The lettering in the artillery wheel, the odd lines behind the CBH smack of a casting not a striking.
The CHB is one of the badges that Dracs copied.

Ian,

I have to agree with Bill it looks and is funny all around!

jim a · #5 15-03-11, 12:55 AM

In my opinion this is a fake... I am using some knowledge gleaned from a very reputable CEF collector who I trust when dealing with badges in this catergory... as these are very expensive badges I'm torn between disclosing the knowledge to the forum and then opening up another venue for the restrikers or keeping my mouth shut... for now I'll just keep quiet

LLWill · #6 15-03-11, 11:42 AM

That is a "fake" Arty Badge. CEF Arty for some reason is one of the most faked areas of the CEF Badge world. I have been "burned" a couple of times and will not longer buy any of these unless I know that it has a known history for the last 80 years. (Out of a family collection)

Use a loop and look at the lettering on the center sheild. The edges are rounded, they are not straight/crisp as a "strike" would make them.

Look into the sunken areas (between the gun carriage) the metal surface should be even, crisp with a slight pebble to it. Any "holes" are from the molding process. The hole will look like a blemish.

The back is the dead give away. The real badges have the same detail and crispness as the front. Tangs are common but lugs were used. Your image of the lug that looks like a part of the badge (another clue) has another clue. Look to the right of the lug along the bottom of the banner, there is an indent there that is where the tang used to be.

Send it back or keep it - it is a great reference for "fakes"

whizzbang · #7 16-03-11, 01:00 AM

Thanks everyone. Badge in mail back to seller who insists it is 100% original

but at least will take it back. They made sure to specify "as long as it is in the same condition as they sent it" which always worries me as I have had a seller once tell me I had polished a badge and destroyed its value (of course I did nothing of the sort but nevertheless the destruction of military badge value by polishing is a dubious contention!). PayPal came down on my side though

Cheers, Ian.

mad4thcef · #8 21-11-11, 03:53 PM

After seeing again the CHB on ebay that has a reserve on it !

I would like like to pass on a few pointers about this badge.

1/ Style A is the most common variety.

2/ Be very leery if its not!

3/ As of all of the above should cover it!

I have attached Style A. Note this has tangs.

Compare this to the one that is in the CEF gallery. The finish looks off and I know the scanned image is sometimes distorted.

The true image(The scans sometimes does not do the badge justice)

To have and to hold is the best especially with CEF Arty Badges!

I welcome your comments!

Cheers
Rob

Phillip Herring · #9 21-11-11, 03:58 PM

I would look at the central circular device from the side to make sure that is a separate piece applied to the wheel of the gun. I believe that the repros are cast in one piece.

Phil

mad4thcef · #10 21-11-11, 04:22 PM

Hello Phillip,

You would be correct!

I recently sent out an email (want list)to my realm of people I deal with!

One of the replies this week was of course the CHB Style B.

The CHB is a common Arty badge among CEF badges however I have never seen a Style B Original badge.

I have a picture of one but it is only the front and comes from a reputable collectors collection that was in his CEF badge rarities pile! However ???

I have attached pics you be the judge! I walked away from this one!

You are also correct about the Disc in the center dead give away!

Cheers
Rob

Looking for Numbered Arty badges!

Phillip Herring · #11 21-11-11, 04:32 PM

I would be looking for tangs, or signs of tangs on this type of badge.

Phil

mad4thcef · #12 21-11-11, 07:30 PM

Hello Philip,

Hear is a 13-1 CHB Style B The real deal!

As well as some others! 14-9,12-79,15-5,17-13

I need 12-79 and 17-13 .

Cheers
Rob

LLWill · #13 21-11-11, 11:45 PM

I think "Rob" hit it on the head. To have the badge in your hand is the only way to confirm its status. Rob and I have been exchanging PM's about the CHB and the one in the CEF project. The image in the project is a little "off" so any comment based on that badge/image is difficult to make.
I agree with Rob, in the hand and you make a decision. The "clues" on repro badges are all good things to know.

Larry

RJW · #14 25-11-11, 06:49 PM

I sent the photo of the CHB pin to Mike for the CEF gallery.
I wish I could verify that it is authentic. The pin was my grandfathers and I was able to verify that he joined the CHB in 1917 through records at the Canadian Library of Archives.
I can take more photos if anyone would like to see more detail. I would very much like to authenticate the pin.

mad4thcef · #15 25-11-11, 08:29 PM

RJW

I sent you a private e mail.

Cheers
Rob