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  #16  
Old 25-11-17, 08:24 PM
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Chipper Chipper is offline
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You may have noticed the picture is slightly out of focus, and while crimp marks are nice, they are certainly no guarantee of a good badge. I personally think it's just fine, but understand you don't. Each to his own, I guess.

Cheers, Tim
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  #17  
Old 25-11-17, 09:21 PM
Jackhr Jackhr is offline
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Here is one that is sown onto a belt so these are the best photos I could get without unpicking the stitching, hope this helps you.

Jack
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  #18  
Old 25-11-17, 09:48 PM
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A genuine and mint badge. Sorry about the poor photography, but I am sure you can make it out.

Last edited by Nozzer; 23-01-18 at 01:57 PM.
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  #19  
Old 25-11-17, 09:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chipper View Post
while crimp marks are nice, they are certainly no guarantee of a good badge. I personally think it's just fine, but understand you don't. Each to his own, I guess
Quite agree! And to think that some who disagree have access to hammers
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  #20  
Old 26-11-17, 06:59 AM
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Originally Posted by High Wood View Post
I personally don't particularly like the reverse of Chipper's badge. I would look for one with a tapered slider with a crimp mark.
I have to agree with you on this ...
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  #21  
Old 26-11-17, 07:07 AM
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Can I please ask about this Cyclists badge as to its authenticity ? ... it looked better than my last one ! Thanks in advance .
Thank you all so much for your advice , but as a beginner I have to say I am no further forward ... all the examples shown to me as 'good' ones look different to one another and many look the same ( to my untutored eyes ) as the regular copies found at most fairs ! I feel like a newbie at a wine appreciation class ! I am not getting those hints of blackberry and woodsmoke drifting through the beech trees !
But to be serious , could anyone express an opinion on my latest badge ( ie the second one I have bought ) shown here please ?
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  #22  
Old 26-11-17, 09:17 AM
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Sonofacqms Sonofacqms is offline
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Cool Variations with badges

RAD, without actually handling your badge it is always difficult from a screen image to ascertain whether a badge is an original or a copy, well it is for me and I don't often comment on peoples badges and their authenticity.

However, during the time of the Great War when the Army cyclist Corps badges were manufactured there were a number of companies who produced badges, not all used the same process to obtain the end product I'm sure and there is knowone who worked on them around now to ask.

Crimp marks and named sliders seem now to be the hallmark of a "good" badge with many collectors, but when I first started collecting some sixty plus years ago named sliders were not much in evidence on pre WWII other ranks cap badges, I have some truly poorly manufactured badges which I was given when I first started collecting, I would say if the majority of people saw them at a fair they would dismiss them as poor reproductions yet I know they are original and that is why I find it difficult to comment on badges.

However, in this instance I would say your second badge looks good enough for someone who rides a Great War bicycle to wear, others may have a different opinion.

Rob
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  #23  
Old 28-11-17, 12:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonofacqms View Post
RAD, without actually handling your badge it is always difficult from a screen image to ascertain whether a badge is an original or a copy, well it is for me and I don't often comment on peoples badges and their authenticity.

However, during the time of the Great War when the Army cyclist Corps badges were manufactured there were a number of companies who produced badges, not all used the same process to obtain the end product I'm sure and there is knowone who worked on them around now to ask.

Crimp marks and named sliders seem now to be the hallmark of a "good" badge with many collectors, but when I first started collecting some sixty plus years ago named sliders were not much in evidence on pre WWII other ranks cap badges, I have some truly poorly manufactured badges which I was given when I first started collecting, I would say if the majority of people saw them at a fair they would dismiss them as poor reproductions yet I know they are original and that is why I find it difficult to comment on badges.

However, in this instance I would say your second badge looks good enough for someone who rides a Great War bicycle to wear, others may have a different opinion.

Rob
Rob , thank you for your plain speaking and common sense ..... I shall keep this second badge and use it .... I appreciate your honesty and lack of 'mystery' surrounding the topic, cheers, Rad.
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  #24  
Old 29-11-17, 10:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonofacqms View Post
RAD, without actually handling your badge it is always difficult from a screen image to ascertain whether a badge is an original or a copy, well it is for me and I don't often comment on peoples badges and their authenticity.

However, during the time of the Great War when the Army cyclist Corps badges were manufactured there were a number of companies who produced badges, not all used the same process to obtain the end product I'm sure and there is knowone who worked on them around now to ask.

Crimp marks and named sliders seem now to be the hallmark of a "good" badge with many collectors, but when I first started collecting some sixty plus years ago named sliders were not much in evidence on pre WWII other ranks cap badges, I have some truly poorly manufactured badges which I was given when I first started collecting, I would say if the majority of people saw them at a fair they would dismiss them as poor reproductions yet I know they are original and that is why I find it difficult to comment on badges.

However, in this instance I would say your second badge looks good enough for someone who rides a Great War bicycle to wear, others may have a different opinion.

Rob
I agree with many of your points but would say that badges from the Great War, or earlier, should have certain characteristics concomitant with the manufacturing techniques of the period. If the design of a cap badge has not changed between 1914 and 1945 and badge production has massively increased due to war time demand then there should be indicators of which are the earlier badges. Badges from the Great War are more likely to have tapered sliders, crimp marks and sweat holes than later badges. So as a rule of thumb is that, whilst these features are not hallmarks, they are certainly indicators of a badge produced earlier than those without these features.

As the Army Cyclist Corps was disbanded in 1919 all their badges ought to have period characteristics unless economy production methods cut corners. Unlike other Corps I don't think that the A.C.C. was massively expanded during the Great War.

The waters are further muddied by the amount of fake A.C.C. there are on the market.

Simon
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  #25  
Old 29-11-17, 03:27 PM
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Sonofacqms Sonofacqms is offline
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Cool Army Cyclist Corps badges

Simon, I agree with you to a point although Nozzers badge which is in mint condition does not have a tapered slider or much of a crimp mark if any, I will have to look out mine when I next visit my stuff.

Rob
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  #26  
Old 29-11-17, 08:11 PM
Jackhr Jackhr is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by High Wood View Post
I agree with many of your points but would say that badges from the Great War, or earlier, should have certain characteristics concomitant with the manufacturing techniques of the period. If the design of a cap badge has not changed between 1914 and 1945 and badge production has massively increased due to war time demand then there should be indicators of which are the earlier badges. Badges from the Great War are more likely to have tapered sliders, crimp marks and sweat holes than later badges. So as a rule of thumb is that, whilst these features are not hallmarks, they are certainly indicators of a badge produced earlier than those without these features.

As the Army Cyclist Corps was disbanded in 1919 all their badges ought to have period characteristics unless economy production methods cut corners. Unlike other Corps I don't think that the A.C.C. was massively expanded during the Great War.

The waters are further muddied by the amount of fake A.C.C. there are on the market.

Simon
So what would the opinion be of the one I have shown ? As it is sown down on one side and the method of the sowing and the thread used is common to the other badges on the belt,so period badge?

Thanks Jack
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  #27  
Old 30-11-17, 04:06 PM
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Smile Cyclist on a belt

Jack, from what I can see your cyclists badge does not have much of a tapered slider, but to my mind it looks OK.

Rob
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  #28  
Old 01-12-17, 04:27 AM
Artynut Artynut is offline
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Off topic I know RAD, the lamps on the cycle, are they battery operated and are the batteries still available? I have a nice Miller bicycle acetylene lamp, but perhaps they were done with by WW1. Congratulations on your restoration! Regards, D.J.
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  #29  
Old 01-12-17, 08:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackhr View Post
So what would the opinion be of the one I have shown ? As it is sown down on one side and the method of the sowing and the thread used is common to the other badges on the belt,so period badge?

Thanks Jack
Jack,

I would certainly say that your badge is of the same period as the other badges on the belt, i.e. mounted during or shortly after the Great War. That said, as a young lad in the 1960's, I can remember dustmen wearing leather belts fitted with cap badges which may, or may not, have been collected during the war. There were an awful lot of surplus 'army badges' knocking around in 1968 when I acquired my first cap badge from a junk shop.

As I have said, my preference is that Great War cap badges have certain characteristics such as tapered sliders, sweat holes, crimp marks and have a clearly defined striking. I fully acknowledge that not all these features will appear in all cap badges of the period due to wartime production methods and that sweat holes will not appear on badges which require no brazing. Sweat holes themselves have now become a minefield as these are being added to modern fakes.

My personal policy is to get the best possible example of each badge no matter how common the cap badge is. To this end I prefer to get badges with provenance from house clearances rather than buy from the internet. It can be a haphazard method of collecting but I am constantly amazed by what turns up as in my recent Manchester Regiment finds.

Simon
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  #30  
Old 01-12-17, 09:25 PM
Jackhr Jackhr is offline
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Originally Posted by High Wood View Post
Jack,

I would certainly say that your badge is of the same period as the other badges on the belt, i.e. mounted during or shortly after the Great War. That said, as a young lad in the 1960's, I can remember dustmen wearing leather belts fitted with cap badges which may, or may not, have been collected during the war. There were an awful lot of surplus 'army badges' knocking around in 1968 when I acquired my first cap badge from a junk shop.

As I have said, my preference is that Great War cap badges have certain characteristics such as tapered sliders, sweat holes, crimp marks and have a clearly defined striking. I fully acknowledge that not all these features will appear in all cap badges of the period due to wartime production methods and that sweat holes will not appear on badges which require no brazing. Sweat holes themselves have now become a minefield as these are being added to modern fakes.

My personal policy is to get the best possible example of each badge no matter how common the cap badge is. To this end I prefer to get badges with provenance from house clearances rather than buy from the internet. It can be a haphazard method of collecting but I am constantly amazed by what turns up as in my recent Manchester Regiment finds.

Simon
Thank you Simon for your input and yes I realise belts could have been put together after the war. My 2 belts were from Australian WW1 soldiers who families sold them with other items as there was no one to leave them to a they were the last in the line.

Jack
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