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  #1  
Old 29-10-19, 05:12 PM
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Default Buttons - 'greek keys' and my nomenclature.

All button collectors come across non-text backmarks by British manufacturers.
There may be different reasons for using them:
- the tailor did not want the button manufacturer's name on the buttons.
- the buttons were cheap and the manufacturer did not want his name on them.

Most are found on civic service buttons (fire brigades, police, transportation, ambulances).
A while ago I started giving them a name. The "hammerkey" matches Firmin dies. I have not managed to link the well known 'greekkey' to a manufacturer.
Here is the current lot:
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 4starskey.jpg (77.7 KB, 45 views)
File Type: jpg circleskey.jpg (59.6 KB, 38 views)
File Type: jpg greekkey.jpg (20.0 KB, 44 views)
File Type: jpg hammerkey.jpg (13.0 KB, 57 views)
File Type: jpg snakekey.jpg (78.6 KB, 45 views)
File Type: jpg squarekey.jpg (21.0 KB, 34 views)
File Type: jpg star_key.jpg (71.3 KB, 34 views)
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  #2  
Old 30-10-19, 02:21 AM
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runic1901 runic1901 is offline
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Hi btns,
Thanks for showing them. Quite a few I haven't yet found here in Australia.
Do you mean you have seen a Firmin die for the "hammer key" mark?
Do you know that the "Greek key" is not Firmin, or is there just a complete lack of information at present?
Regards, Tony
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  #3  
Old 30-10-19, 05:25 AM
Alex Rice Alex Rice is offline
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Am I correct in assuming the 'greekkey' is the 3rd one along and the 'hammerkey' No.4?
Cheers,
Alex
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  #4  
Old 30-10-19, 05:50 AM
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Hi,
Thank you both for your interest.
When you hover over the button you get its name.

1. 4starskey
2. circleskey
3. greekkey
4. hammerkey
5. snakekey
6. squarekey
7. star_key

I have never seen a back die with these symbols. All matching attempts have been made using the fronts of buttons.

I have found Firmin buttons to match the hammer key design.
Hammerkey back marks are on British and foreign buttons.

Many buttons with a greekkey are high quality maritime and naval buttons, British and foreign.
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  #5  
Old 30-10-19, 10:29 AM
tarabelle tarabelle is offline
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Very interesting and thank you for sharing
There are 2 I have never seen

T x
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  #6  
Old 30-10-19, 10:51 AM
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Is there any way we can progress this by sharing buttons from our collections with these back marks which may tie down when they were in use?

Rob
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  #7  
Old 30-10-19, 11:11 AM
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Is this pattern another unknown type?

Rob
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File Type: jpg mx.jpg (40.6 KB, 47 views)
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  #8  
Old 30-10-19, 02:57 PM
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This is a great thread, thanks for starting it.

I have a few such buttons. Here is a nice early example with an interesting back design.

My dear friend and fellow forum member Roger Milward who we sadly lost not too long ago believed it was possibly by W & R Smith.

I will dig out some more when I get the chance.

Cheerio,

Roy
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File Type: jpg #40.jpg (35.4 KB, 50 views)
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  #9  
Old 30-10-19, 06:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Miller View Post
Is this pattern another unknown type?

Rob
I think it qualifies as a 'hidden' manufacturer's key, but I have always assumed it belonged to Edward Armfield. I do not have evidence. Do you want me to add it to the group?
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  #10  
Old 30-10-19, 06:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Miller View Post
Is there any way we can progress this by sharing buttons from our collections with these back marks which may tie down when they were in use?

Rob
I think that this is a very good idea.
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  #11  
Old 30-10-19, 06:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by btns View Post
I think it qualifies as a 'hidden' manufacturer's key, but I have always assumed it belonged to Edward Armfield. I do not have evidence. Do you want me to add it to the group?
It may be an idea, and it could be possible to check your theory if someone has an Armfield marked Large Middlesex button to compare the die, sadly I don't.

Rob
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  #12  
Old 30-10-19, 08:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Miller View Post
It may be an idea, and it could be possible to check your theory if someone has an Armfield marked Large Middlesex button to compare the die, sadly I don't.

Rob
Here are my A's:
Manitoba Regiment 1920-1936
The Gloucestershire Regt 1881-1994
The Black Watch (Royal Highlanders) 1881-1937 -> no longer/not in collection
The Green Howards (1903-1951)
The Artists Rifles (1914-1936)
13th (County of London) Batallion, The London Regt
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  #13  
Old 31-10-19, 05:35 AM
Alex Rice Alex Rice is offline
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Do you have a 'Hutch' to go with your 'starskey?

...sorry
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  #14  
Old 31-10-19, 06:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Rice View Post
Do you have a 'Hutch' to go with your 'starskey?

...sorry
I am afraid not. The closest I get are Hicks and Starkey.
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  #15  
Old 31-10-19, 06:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by btns View Post
Here are my A's:
Manitoba Regiment 1920-1936
The Gloucestershire Regt 1881-1994
The Black Watch (Royal Highlanders) 1881-1937 -> no longer/not in collection
The Green Howards (1903-1951)
The Artists Rifles (1914-1936)
13th (County of London) Batallion, The London Regt
I have an Armfield Black Watch and a 13th London, I will scan the former if you still have an image of it?

Here is the 13th London which is other ranks quality, but is it from the same die as your "A's" or is it "AW's"?

Rob
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File Type: jpg 13th london.jpg (53.3 KB, 38 views)
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