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  #16  
Old 29-01-12, 07:49 AM
Wayne Ihaka Wayne Ihaka is offline
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Default more Tigers for opinion

as there seems to be a bit of a thing going on with tiger badges I would appreciate expert opinion on the attached 3 badges - 2 are OSD and one a territorial

in particular the thrid badge - I have not seen a gaunt plaque such as this on a Tiger OSD before - is it the real deal?

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  #17  
Old 29-01-12, 10:11 AM
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mooke07 mooke07 is offline
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Default

Hi Wayne,

I like both OSD badges. The first is like my OSD badge in my album. The one with Gaunt plaque matches one in Martin's terrific album. The territorials badge is also fine I think with brazing holes as not a bad feature at all but as many will comment on this not being a definite sign of authenticity and rightly so.

I will have a look at my territorials badge and OSD one just to be sure.

nice additions, cheers Dean
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  #18  
Old 29-01-12, 10:33 AM
monty monty is offline
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Default More TA Tigers

Thought the Left badge would be of interest on this thread,Looks to be a 1970s Gaunt repro.Its a very nice strong badge.The badge on the right is I think OK.
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  #19  
Old 29-01-12, 11:09 AM
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'Ticker' Riley 'Ticker' Riley is offline
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Default Wayne's Leicesters

Hello Wayne

I’m not sure I’m qualified to give an ‘expert opinion’, but I think I can at least add a little to what Dean has said. Your first OSD looks to be a die-stamped version by Jennens & Co., and a rather nice example at that. badgecollector posted some picture of an old silver and gilt example he had to this thread in December 2010, where it is clearly marked “J&Co”. As Dean says, your other OSD is the J.R. Gaunt & Son type, and does indeed match one in my album. The TF badge you have is what I believe is the Smith & Wright type, however I think this might potentially be a restrike made by the company themselves. If you compare yours with the one in monty’s posting, which is also the exact same makers design, you should be able to see two differences that I personally think are significant: one is the slider on yours is longer, and the other is that the sweat holes on yours are much small and not quite the same shape. I have to stress that it is only my view that yours could be a restrike, and I’m sure there are others on the Forum who would disagree with me. Nevertheless, the fact that we have two badges that are obviously the same manufacturer’s design type but show significant differences makes me ask why? The best answer that I can think of is that one is probably a later restrike. I must also add that I do have one of these myself, as they are a nice badge. In fact I have seen a few over the last couple of years, all of which were in more or less the same condition as yours. None had the genuine kind of patina that monty’s example does, but I did see one that had signs of being deliberately aged. Hope some of the above helps?

Regards

Martin


P.S. monty - I’d go along with the one badge you have being a 1970s Gaunt restrike, presumably with its top-scroll having been removed, and would be more than happy that the other is a genuine TF one.
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From Hindoostan, Gibraltar and Almanza; to Dunblane, Alma and Brandywine: Tigers, Steelbacks, Dutch Guards, Leather Hats, Nanny Goats and Red Feathers!
Interested in style and variation of post-1893 regimental cap badges for the Leicesters, the Northamptons, the Warwicks, the K.L.R., the R.W.F. and the D.C.L.I.

“Scutelliphiliacus in vestri insignia pergaudete”
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  #20  
Old 29-01-12, 04:11 PM
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'Ticker' Riley 'Ticker' Riley is offline
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Default Differences in Leicesters TF Badges

Just a quick follow on from my last posting about the differences in the two Leicesters territorial badges on this thread, which I believe to be the Smith & Wright makers’ type - the below being two examples I have:



As should be obvious both badges look to be the same maker’s style or type, with the one on the left being like monty’s example and the one on the right being like the one Wayne posted above. I hope this direct comparison makes clear the differences in the slider and sweat-holes that I am talking about, and which makes me, personally, think the right-hand badge could well be a later restrike by the same maker.

Best regards

Martin
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From Hindoostan, Gibraltar and Almanza; to Dunblane, Alma and Brandywine: Tigers, Steelbacks, Dutch Guards, Leather Hats, Nanny Goats and Red Feathers!
Interested in style and variation of post-1893 regimental cap badges for the Leicesters, the Northamptons, the Warwicks, the K.L.R., the R.W.F. and the D.C.L.I.

“Scutelliphiliacus in vestri insignia pergaudete”
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  #21  
Old 29-01-12, 11:43 PM
Wayne Ihaka Wayne Ihaka is offline
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Default modern repro

The badge I posted came out of a Marlow's auction which means didly.

I see that mine has the same style of badge but it is quite new looking and logically it would seem to be a modern badge.

Keep up the good work Ticker - it is very much appreciated.

Have you some other scans of territorial badges that we can see? They are the big gap in my Leicestershire collection

Last edited by Wayne Ihaka; 30-01-12 at 07:26 AM.
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  #22  
Old 30-01-12, 07:09 AM
Wayne Ihaka Wayne Ihaka is offline
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Default more Tiger badges

attached are a few more photos

really appreciate some commentary on makers and age of these

the territorial has no sweat holes but has great patina and came via Lew Shotton

there are 2 with oval sweat holes - who would have een the maker for this?

there is a nic one with 5 rectangular sweat holes - maker?

the economy has good look and happy with it but seems different from other one I have.

the Smith & Wright maker marked badge real nice as well - what period do you think this is from?
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Last edited by Wayne Ihaka; 30-01-12 at 07:24 AM.
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  #23  
Old 30-01-12, 07:35 PM
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'Ticker' Riley 'Ticker' Riley is offline
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Default More of Wayne's Leicesters

Hi Wayne

Looks like you have a nice little collection of Leicesters badges here, but I’m afraid you’re rather testing my present knowledge to the limits! Although I have examples of all of these myself, bar the marked Smith & Wright one, I’m sorry to say I haven’t yet been able to ascribe makers to these particular manufacturers’ types. As far as the badges themselves are concerned, I don’t believe any of the ones you’ve shown are restrikes or repros, though I do have my concerns about the first one.

Some time ago Paul (wardog) posted a similar Leicesters TF badge up here, though admittedly the slider on his was not the same as yours. Nevertheless, the badge is the exact same makers’ type. As I pointed out in my own posting to that thread, this same design type comes with a ‘tabbed-on’ top scroll as a regulars’ badge. It is because of this that I am always suspicious when I see ones of these territorials badges, as it maybe that it has merely lost its ‘Hindoostan’ scroll. I have personally, therefore, avoided buying one of these, especially as being a TF badge they generally cost more than an ordinary Leicesters ORs one does. As you say, your example does have a nice patina, and could well date from the Great War, despite not having sweat-holes. Obviously Lew Shotton thought it was a genuine territorials badge, but I’m afraid I remain a little sceptical myself. If photographic evidence could be found of this type being worn during the correct period then that would certainly change my mind, but so far I have not personally seen any. If the badge was mine, I would have it down as a possible TF badge rather than a probable. For me, at the moment, the authentic ones are mainly the Smith & Wright type, as in tommytbag’s posting here, though I’d be happy with a couple of other ones I’ve seen as well (more on these another time perhaps).

The second and third badges you have look like the same makers’ type as each other, and are also like the very first Leicesters badge I bought, which I posted to the Forum here. Mine does not have sweat-holes, and I was advised that it was probably not First World War period, as I had been told when I bought it, but rather from the Second World War. Although at the time I was a complete beginner, I think that assessment is probably still the most likely. Given both your examples do have sweat-holes, I think yours are much more likely to be from the Great War or the inter-war period. Is that a service number I can see scratched onto the slider of one of them? Might be worth trying to trace the soldier it refers to, as this could well give a date for the badge?

The fourth badge is what I understand is called the ‘kitten-faced’ type, and looks to be a nice example. These tend to come with different sized sweat-holes, which I suspect could represent a chronological change in production and so indicate different periods of manufacture - unfortunately as of yet I am still working on that little theory!! Your all-brass/gilding metal economy issue is indeed a variant to the normal ones, but I am happy that this too is genuine. All the examples I have seen of this type, which isn’t as common as the ‘kitten-faced’ version, have all exhibited authentic signs of being Great War period badges - at least in my opinion that is. Interestingly, whilst the other manufacturers’ types I have seen also crop up as bi-metal badges, I have only, so far, seen this one as an economy strike.

Finally, your Smith & Wright badge - firstly it is good to see a marked example confirming my thoughts on this particular makers’ type. It is also intriguing to note that it looks to have been gilded (or gold washed) at some point? Interesting too is that its top ‘Hindoostan’ scroll has not been applied to an equivalent brass section of the badge itself, as is the norm with this maker, but rather ‘tacked’ on to the tiger’s back - possibly indicating this could have been converted from a TF badge into a regular’s one? I have seen other examples like this, so perhaps one could tentatively put a post-1917 date to such a badge, given it was from 1917 onwards that territorial regiments were allowed to wear badges with the same honours as the regulars (see this posting). This on the assumption that the actual manufacturer made the conversion in order to adjust stock to the change in regulations? I think that’s about all I can say really - sorry I can’t give you as comprehensive a reply as you’d hoped, but I trust at least some of the above is of interest?

Best regards

Martin
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From Hindoostan, Gibraltar and Almanza; to Dunblane, Alma and Brandywine: Tigers, Steelbacks, Dutch Guards, Leather Hats, Nanny Goats and Red Feathers!
Interested in style and variation of post-1893 regimental cap badges for the Leicesters, the Northamptons, the Warwicks, the K.L.R., the R.W.F. and the D.C.L.I.

“Scutelliphiliacus in vestri insignia pergaudete”
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  #24  
Old 31-01-12, 12:39 PM
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Alan O Alan O is offline
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http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ROYAL-LEIC...item53eb560f50

This 'TF' Leicestershire one is just not right!
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  #25  
Old 31-01-12, 10:30 PM
Wayne Ihaka Wayne Ihaka is offline
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that one shown on the e-bay listing has a Royal Leicestershire scroll - interesting - is it a damaged badge or just a faker not knowing what was actually made
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