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  #76  
Old 03-11-12, 06:35 PM
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Malcolm Davey Malcolm Davey is offline
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Hi Iain
The bottom half of the pennons look like white metal,which i believe were on Officers. My 27th Other Ranks pennons are all brass. plus all the sweat holes on my Officers and O/Rs are oblong and not round.
I would like to hear Peter Seaman's comments on your badge if he sees this thread

All the best
Malc
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File Type: jpg 27th Lancers b.jpg (60.5 KB, 74 views)
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  #77  
Old 03-11-12, 09:02 PM
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The wm pennons are a bad sign for an ORs' badge.
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  #78  
Old 09-11-12, 02:15 PM
iain iain is offline
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Thanks for all your replies i did not buy and the seller was very good about it when i explained what i had been told about the badge . Iain
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  #79  
Old 29-06-20, 09:34 PM
enfant perdus enfant perdus is offline
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I'm revisiting this thread to seek opinions on the pictured badge. Poorly cast with N/S fixings that are I believe common to bazaar copies. The only intriguing thing is it was previously given a wash of gilt and silver. Mostly polished back to brass (including the elephant), but visible in some places, especially when removing the elephant. I'm not bothered either way, I just wouldn't want to bin it on the off chance it's not a total dud.
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  #80  
Old 29-06-20, 10:42 PM
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cbuehler cbuehler is offline
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A typical Indian made cast badge. Has all the signs of a period piece.

CB

Revision: This badge is very typical of Indian make. The integral lugs and pin on style indicate this. However, as the 27L were never in India, this changes the picture. Unless some Egyptian maker copied the Indian style, it could not be of the ww2 period. No Italian made badge was ever made like this.

CB
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Last edited by cbuehler; 30-06-20 at 02:16 PM.
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  #81  
Old 29-06-20, 10:56 PM
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It’s made from a casting of the Firmin badge as evident from the die flaw below the 2 and the shape of the elephants head and the crown. So it is in with a chance.

As to when it was made... pass.

If it’s a repro then the faker had the good sense to use a genuine badge to make his copies.
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  #82  
Old 29-06-20, 11:56 PM
enfant perdus enfant perdus is offline
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I appreciate the help gentlemen!
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  #83  
Old 30-06-20, 08:06 AM
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Frank Kelley Frank Kelley is offline
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Not a badge that I would rush to buy without it being in a group to a particular soldier, preferably with an AB64, notwithstanding, you do see plenty of examples that were made in both North Africa and particularly in Italy.
Certainly, just from the photographs, this appears to be one of them, I would not be unhappy with it.



Quote:
Originally Posted by enfant perdus View Post
I'm revisiting this thread to seek opinions on the pictured badge. Poorly cast with N/S fixings that are I believe common to bazaar copies. The only intriguing thing is it was previously given a wash of gilt and silver. Mostly polished back to brass (including the elephant), but visible in some places, especially when removing the elephant. I'm not bothered either way, I just wouldn't want to bin it on the off chance it's not a total dud.
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  #84  
Old 30-06-20, 09:16 PM
enfant perdus enfant perdus is offline
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Thank you Frank! It doesn't fall within my collecting interests so I'd like to move it along, but I have a horror of passing along fakes.
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  #85  
Old 22-07-20, 08:23 AM
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Some number of years ago now, I actually bought two Firmin derived cast 27th Lancers (27L) cap badges, each of which having round wire lugs. They were purchased with prospective research in mind, since period 27L theatre cast badges in my experience are few and far between to compare with.

I’ve subsequently found over the years multiple examples of this Firmin-esque cast badge being sold on eBay, etc, in several guises and of a varying cast quality. Predominantly encountered with round wire lugs and the cast lugs associated with Asian produced badges - occasionally seen with a slider, too. Plus, with the finishes of a dark bronze, ‘gilded’ (with silver applied to the elephants head), wholly ‘silvered’ and an unfinished bare metal (a coppery bronze colour) version.

Alas, I can’t profess to be overly conversant with the pros and cons of such theatre made replacement badges, no. However, that said, I am of the inclination in relation to these prevalent cast badges that revolve around a single cast pattern to be the protracted manufacture of a fake.

One such possible candidate for their origin is, M. Azam & Son, Lahore, Pakistan, stemming from at least the mid-1970s.

See post 6 - the second image along the top row:

https://www.britishbadgeforum.com/fo...highlight=Azam

And, this is yet another cast version I’d be more than wary of too; note the differences and traits of this very type. There’s been quite a lot of this particular cast badge variant doing the rounds on eBay in recent years with sliders or lugs fitted - in fact there’s one of each currently on eBay at the time of writing.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/153946071457


I would concur with the advice given earlier on the subject of such bespoke replacement theatre made badges with regard to provenance being an essential factor.



• You will notice in these pictures a single viewable peg (one of two actually present) retaining the elephants head; which is an associated trait amongst the very type in question.

• In addition, you can just see on both examples the remnants of a single integral cast lug (indicated by the red arrow), the majority of which is omitted by the round wire lug and its solder.
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Last edited by Marcus H; 22-07-20 at 10:17 AM.
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  #86  
Old 22-07-20, 08:30 AM
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Pictures continued:
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File Type: jpg 94373766-DCC1-4C11-9496-45B2F81E61CB.jpg (59.0 KB, 22 views)
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  #87  
Old 23-07-20, 08:07 AM
Alex Rice Alex Rice is offline
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Thoughts on this please? Unfortunately I don't have a photo of the rear as it is mounted in a frame. You can see that it has been brooched and the elephant has a slight crack on its head from polishing I think. My personal opinion was that it is good as I can't see anyone brooching a fake badge. I think it is a period locally made badge.
Thanks, cheers,
Alex
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