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  #1  
Old 10-09-08, 10:39 PM
markinbelfast markinbelfast is offline
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Default Just what is this?

Just picked this up...can anyone tell me what date its from and where would it have been found.
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  #2  
Old 10-09-08, 11:39 PM
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Arnhemjim Arnhemjim is offline
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Default Airborne Forces Formation Badge

Mark,
Based on a careful look, I think you have a righteous WWII printed version of the Airborne Forces Formation Badge. Unfortunately it has been cut in such a way as to destroy the total square that was its original shape. Base this on the printing of Pegasus on the diagonal to the maroon background cloth and the position of Bellerophon's spear passing through the wing. The color and silhouette of Pegasus appear good. To do a detailed analysis yourself suggest you go to my review on e-Bay ( http://reviews.ebay.com/Buyer-s-Guid...00000003506743)
If you go down a ways there is a check list for evaluating the authenticity of this specific patch.
Hope this helps.
Regards,
Jim
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  #3  
Old 11-09-08, 02:14 AM
lettman lettman is offline
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A great review article, Jim -- should be compulsory reading for all BBF members!
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  #4  
Old 11-09-08, 06:01 AM
markinbelfast markinbelfast is offline
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Jim....cheers for that can you copy and paste the actual bit that refers to this badge...being new to all this I'm a bit confused to the actual bit relating to this patch...thanks in advance!
Mark
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  #5  
Old 11-09-08, 03:59 PM
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Arnhemjim Arnhemjim is offline
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Default British Airborne Formation Badge details

Hi Mark,
Some of the finer levels of discernment which should be used in detecting a copy from an original printed Pegasus patch. These include (but are not limited to):

• Compare the tail part from the original with the reproduction.
The reproduction version has a thicker tail coming out of the body than the original!
And the curves in the tail differ from the original!

• Compare the spear-point from the original with the reproduction.
The repro version has a triangle like point, the originals have more of a harpoon point, and note the ribbons on spear’s shaft end from the original and the repro.

• Compare the wing tips with each other, the original has better outlines in the small segments.

• Compare Bellerophon’s foot sticking out under the horse’s body, they are much thicker in the reproduction than the original.

• Compare on printed patches whether the cloth weave runs diagonally to the print (WWII) versus horizontally (post WWII).

• Compare where the spear shaft passes through the feathers of Pegasus’s wing. On the original between feather 4 and 5, counting from where the wing starts to curve back, and on the copy directly through feather 4.

• Compare the weight of the cloth. Originals tend to be stiffer (thicker) than reproductions. The print should also be slightly visible on the backside of the cloth.

As you can see I did not mention the application of forensic science in total jest. And all this is applicable to a single formation badge. Refer to this author's companion guide describing WWII British Combined Operations (Commandos) formation badges. Per the theme song of "Monk"(the television detective program), “It’s a jungle out there.” To help navigate that jungle there are three excellent web sites that I have discovered. The first is The British Military Badge Forum (http://www.britishbadgeforum.com, Truly an exceptional site!) and the second is the Australian Military Reference (http://auspfor.tripod.com) which includes the Special Air Service Insignia of the United Kingdom and the Commonwealth, and a third on Australian Army Badges and Patches (http://www.military-badge.com). All three of sites provide a broad range of expert knowledge, including detailed photographs and extensive discussions. In addition, for an extremely detailed set of excellent color photographs and discussion of RAF, Army Air Corps (AAC), Glider Pilot Regiment and Fleet Air Arm (FAA), as well as Commonwealth wings and insignia, see; Aviation Wings and Badges of World War II (http://www.ww2wings.com/main.shtml).

Am also including an attachment of what I believe to be a duplicate of your patch.
Hope this helps,
Jim
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  #6  
Old 12-09-08, 06:15 PM
markinbelfast markinbelfast is offline
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Brilliant mate....money can't buy knowledge like that!
thanks again,
Mark
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  #7  
Old 12-09-08, 08:48 PM
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tynesideirish tynesideirish is offline
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Jim, I'm sorry but I have to take issue with the second site you guided Mark to. The Australian Site you mentioned is atrocious. I surfed to the British SAS part and nearly all but the most modern of badges, the badges are copies, in most cases really bad copies and in some cases ie: The guards SAS beret badge are pure fantasy items. I didn't even bother with the other countries.

Please, readers do not buy tripe off Ebay on the strength of that site. I suppose it helps navigate the jungle purely by what not to buy.

Mike

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arnhemjim View Post
To help navigate that jungle there are three excellent web sites that I have discovered.

and the second is the Australian Military Reference (http://auspfor.tripod.com) which includes the Special Air Service Insignia of the United Kingdom and the Commonwealth,

Hope this helps,
Jim
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  #8  
Old 12-09-08, 09:09 PM
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tynesideirish tynesideirish is offline
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Mark, there's not a hope in hell of anyone ever wearing it like this so basically if it is genuine,( which considering what the seller did with it, I hope it's not) it's worthless.

Last edited by tynesideirish; 10-03-09 at 04:10 PM.
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  #9  
Old 12-09-08, 10:24 PM
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Arnhemjim Arnhemjim is offline
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Default Questionable Badge Website

Tynesideirish,
Thought I had found a good reference site given the scope of SF Badges. Reviewed site and realized I was a bit impetuous. I should have reviewed the items with more scrutiny. Am going to edit my review and include a strong word of caution regarding the authenticity of the insignia within the site as soon as I finish this note. With regard to the Airborne Forces Formation Badge, I was totally unaware of the context in which it was acquired. My understanding of the original query was only to identify what it was, not to evaluate its condition. Based upon the photo of what there was remaining, looked to be the remnants of what was a printed WWII British Airborne Forces Formation Badge. Certainly concur that whoever removed it was extremely careless, and that the badge is now rendered worthless. Thanks very much for the critique, sincerely appreciated, and apologies for unintended bum gouge.
Regards,
Jim

Last edited by Arnhemjim; 12-09-08 at 11:00 PM. Reason: Additional assessment
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  #10  
Old 14-09-08, 06:21 PM
markinbelfast markinbelfast is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tynesideirish View Post
Mark, bearing in mind the dodgy medal group, service book etc that this badge came with, there's every chance this is a reenactment ringer too. Either way there's not a hope in hell of anyone ever wearing it like this so basically if it is genuine,( which considering what the seller did with it, I hope it's not) it's worthless.
Cheers for that...the medals seem 100% and the collection contained some nice parachute regiment photos so I'll break even if i decide to sell on.
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  #11  
Old 10-03-09, 05:43 AM
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AAC_GPR AAC_GPR is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arnhemjim View Post
To do a detailed analysis yourself suggest you go to my review on e-Bay ( http://reviews.ebay.com/Buyer-s-Guid...00000003506743)
If you go down a ways there is a check list for evaluating the authenticity of this specific patch.
Hope this helps.
Regards,
Jim
No chastisement intended Jim but perhaps you could amend the following quote from your ebay buyers guide:-

"Embroidered unit titles, formation badges, skill-at-arms badges, parachute wings which are genuine, normally show exposed clean stitching on the underside. Reproductions frequently have thicker thread, with the threads crossing over, or are totally covered by a black backing"

Genuine (and intact) British glider pilot wings should have a black paper backing

Regards,

Kev C
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