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  #1  
Old 25-09-08, 05:27 PM
ukbrits ukbrits is offline
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Default Staybrite Caernarvon & Denbighshire badges

Hi Guys,
Here's one for the staybrite collectors in the forum. I have 2 Anodised aluminium badges to the said Regt both are different! As can hopefully be seen in the piccys, picture 1 & 2 is a staybrite badge made by J.R Gaunt London it is a similar pattern to Gaylor's plate 33D. I believe this to be the genuine item. Pictures 3 & 4 are a different style of badge were the "Ich Dien" scrolls appear well detatched from the the bottom title scroll.As one forum member said on another thread it looks like a Wiltshire Yeo badge with a scroll added on underneath.My Personal feeling is that the badge depicted in pics 3 & 4 is a reject a/a badge for the C & D Yeo - the gold colour is poor and also overlaps on to the plumes.It also has a blank slider which suggests to me it was likely to have been never issued. I prefer to look at this item as a reject rather than an all too readily used term "fake anodised".
I would like to think when Firmin took over Gaunt in Birmingham all previously rejected badges in the store rooms would have been sold off , hence all the mistakes and odd variations that turn up.
I think any currently produced "fake anodised" are so poorly made they wouldn't fool even a novice collector.
Do any other members in the forum have any other C & D Yeo staybrites similar to the ones shown or any opinions on authenticity of their badges.
Regards.
Colin
Attached Images
File Type: jpg CIMG0385.jpg (72.7 KB, 139 views)
File Type: jpg CIMG0387.jpg (66.3 KB, 138 views)
File Type: jpg CIMG0391.jpg (74.8 KB, 130 views)
File Type: jpg CIMG0388.jpg (63.7 KB, 133 views)
  #2  
Old 25-09-08, 06:02 PM
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Peter Brydon Peter Brydon is offline
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Cant comment on the individual badges, but the only Caernarvonshire and Denbighshire Yeomanry badge I ever owned was well and truly scratched as one might expect from an old used anodised badge.

The point of my post is that if you look at Edwards " Regimental Badges", first edition,of which I have a copy of the 1972 reprint, the badge is shown as having "C &D Yeo" on the scroll and not the full title ( see picture ) I wonder if Edwards.like a lot of other respected authors was wrong in his line drawn illustration ?

P.B.
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  #3  
Old 26-09-08, 09:13 AM
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Colin,
I have an example matching yours as shown in 3&4.
Mine is pristine and I have always been suspicious of it. I know that other Welsh collectors have the C&D examples with the Gaunt mark on the slider and believe this to be the genuine one.
With regard to Edwards, his drawn images leave a lot to be desired and he has used a lot of abbreviations where none actually existed.
Cofion,
Kevin

Last edited by 41st; 26-09-08 at 09:13 AM. Reason: Typo
  #4  
Old 26-09-08, 10:05 AM
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hi Guys,believe it or not i raised this point with hagwalther in the last 7 days.Ive had limited internet access at the moment so i am a bit behind.I was waiting for a picture of the rear of the 1 badge before i passed comment.My initial thought was that 1 was a recent fake,until i saw the back of both badges.The points raised in the thread are the same as i mentioned.The unit existed for 6 years or so,i wouldnt have thought that the badge was mass produced.Its quiet possible that 1 is a reject batch.
  #5  
Old 26-09-08, 11:25 AM
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The Gaunt looks good to me (remember I'm no expert here just trying to record it all and make some sense of it all).

Now with the second. Has the scroll part been added to the badge?

The blank slider looks like a few I have seen lately too.

With regard to the scroll part - this looks like a separate piece added via pins to a scroll 'backing plate'. Is this correct and if so, could the same badge be reused for other units but with a different scroll?

Coming back to sliders. I am of the opinion that they were added BEFORE attachement to the badge body as it would be easier to do this rather than after - Am I right here?

Regards

Chris
  #6  
Old 27-03-12, 12:50 PM
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Default Caernarvon/Flint & Denbigh Yeo Cap badges.....

Hi All

Does anyone have the following in Anodised Cap badges?

1. "Caernarvon & Denbigh Yeo", anodised aluminium sealed pattern 28th Jan 1952 (KK Fig: 2350).

2. "Flint & Debigh Yeo", anodised aluminium sealed pattern 28th Jan 1958 (KK Fig : 2351).

I would love to see some images front & back....

Were there different makers of each of the badges?

I did find this thread http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/for...ead.php?t=3658 and one of those A/A badges is a fake.
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Last edited by GriffMJ; 27-03-12 at 01:23 PM.
  #7  
Old 27-03-12, 03:13 PM
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Found images of both now...... both are Gaunt made..... unless anyone has a different maker variant?
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  #8  
Old 28-03-12, 05:40 AM
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Hi Griff,

The following two badges are deemed, by myself at least, to be genuine examples.

Regards

Chris
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File Type: jpg Caernarvon.jpg (34.7 KB, 131 views)
File Type: jpg Flint & Denbigh.jpg (42.0 KB, 131 views)
  #9  
Old 28-03-12, 07:35 AM
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Thank you Chris

I did find a very old post on the subject and in it was a fake ...... this type of fake can also be found in bi-metal.



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Last edited by GriffMJ; 28-03-12 at 09:51 AM.
  #10  
Old 29-03-12, 12:55 PM
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Chris

Just to clarify..... in your opinion is the A/A badge below a fake?

I ask because the OSD next to it is identicle and it would rule that one out as being a viable badge.
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File Type: jpg CDYeoBadgeAAFake.jpg (49.3 KB, 100 views)
File Type: jpg OfficersOSDCapBadge.jpg (79.0 KB, 71 views)
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Last edited by GriffMJ; 29-03-12 at 01:01 PM.
  #11  
Old 29-03-12, 07:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GriffMJ View Post
Chris

Just to clarify..... in your opinion is the A/A badge below a fake?

I ask because the OSD next to it is identicle and it would rule that one out as being a viable badge.
Hi Griff,

The A/A badge has a slider that has been found on a lot of other badges deemed to be dodgy. I have not gone through the trail back to the the source yet though. However, saying that I do have a very common Prince of Wales Own regt of Yorkshire badge with a similar looking slider and I cannot think why someone would want to reproduce this item. However, (again), I have not been able to compare the two 'in hand'.

re: the two badges - they are totally different and have come from different dies.

e.g. the lower ends of the feathers touch the scroll on the A/A badge while the on the other badge the feathers are well away from it. Also the shape of the crown sides is very different etc. etc.

Regards

Chris
  #12  
Old 29-03-12, 07:15 PM
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Chris

The OSD is a two part badge with the scroll being added to the lowered scrolls on the feathers...

Thanks for your views
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Last edited by GriffMJ; 29-03-12 at 07:22 PM.
  #13  
Old 30-03-12, 09:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hagwalther View Post
Hi Griff,

The following two badges are deemed, by myself at least, to be genuine examples.

Regards

Chris
Fully agreed, Chris.

Nice pair of badges, they compliment each other very well.

:-)
  #14  
Old 15-04-13, 08:56 PM
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Default Caernarvon & Denbigh Bimetal

I'd forgotten I that I had picked up the second badge shown below a while back.
The first is what I have always considered to be the standard issue bimetal badge to the above with the three loops on the reverse.
The second is the recent pick up with a Gaunt slider, but the badge is from the same die.
So why the two variants?
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File Type: jpg IMG_0826.jpg (99.1 KB, 59 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_0827.jpg (88.2 KB, 53 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_0828.jpg (76.3 KB, 54 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_0829.jpg (87.9 KB, 58 views)
  #15  
Old 15-04-13, 09:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 41st View Post
I'd forgotten I that I had picked up the second badge shown below a while back.
The first is what I have always considered to be the standard issue bimetal badge to the above with the three loops on the reverse.
The second is the recent pick up with a Gaunt slider, but the badge is from the same die.
So why the two variants?
I can't comment on non A/A badges but this may be of interest.

When I was in the IWM a few years ago going through their A/A bits and pieces I noted that there was one unit, The Queen’s Own Mercian Yeomanry, RAC (TA), that had an A/A badges with both lugs and slider.

From page 81 of Chapter 8: Loops:

However, collectors need to appreciate that the author has found no definite proof of any pair of anodised aluminium cap badges having the same badge body where the use of loops was specifically reserved for officers and the use of sliders was specifically allocated to ranks. The example given above, for The Queen’s Own Mercian Yeomanry, RAC (TA), probably has more to do with the type of head-dress being worn rather that the ranked use of the two badges. Therefore the use of either loops or sliders came down to the badge’s use on a specific head-dress with a view to aesthetic appearance and the prevention of loss.

A theory of mine only.

Regards

Chris
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